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Hughes/Kennedy or Greinke/Bannister?

If you're Brian Cashman would you trade 2 of the so-called Holy Trinity straight up for the above-mentioned Royals' pair. I'll be curious to see the response because Greinke and Hughes are the power pitchers and neither one has an established track record, while Kennedy and Bannister are more location guys, but Bannister obviously has a little more experience. My personal opinion is if the Yanks had G&B they would be the favorites to win AL and probably the World Series.

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in a word ...

NO

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Apr 18, 2008 4:02 PM EDT   0 recs

I'm shocked you came up with the wrong answer

and so defiantly. Another nice outing by Hughes tonight and I guess you wouldn’t trade Kennedy for Bannister either? And Cash did such a great job with that Hawkins signing.

by andyroth on Apr 19, 2008 2:17 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

*Ahem*

Some career stats for Greinke (age 24):
WHIP IP ERA+
1.17 145.0 120
1.56 183.0 76
1.58 6.3 110
1.30 122.0 127
0.917 24.0 592

Not that I have anything against tatoos, but Greinke actually has “small sample size” written on his face in letter large enough for Capt. Reisman to read from orbit. He’s 24 years old, playing his first arbitration contract, and has a history of debilitating social anxiety. And you want to put him in the New York Yankee fishbowl in exchange for a pitcher still 3 years removed from arbitration who has shown a world of potential in addition to the poise to handle the NY spotlight?.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 19, 2008 2:38 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That would be a fine recipe for success

A poor kid with a serious mental disorder thrown into the lion’s den of NY. Not a whole lot of venomous media in KC ready to tear you a knew one after a bad start.

That kid probably wouldn’t stand a chance.

by anaconda on Apr 19, 2008 2:44 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What about Beckett/Dice K

for Hughes/Kennedy? Or, for that matter, Drysdale/Koufax for Hughes/Kennedy? I’d definitely do that last deal.

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Apr 19, 2008 7:56 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Can I ask a serious question?

And I hope this doesn’t come off too obnoxious, but what is the point of this question? Did Cashman pass up either of these guys to get Hughes or Kennedy? No. Is this trade on the table? No. Then what’s the point other than finding another outlet for your anti-Yankee tirades?

Seriously, I know Greinke has great stuff, and has pitched really well this season, but he’s had debilitating psychological problems in the past that have adversely effected his ability to pitch. Yes he may be over them, but he might not be. I hope he is because he seems like a decent enough guy and I’d hate something like that to derail a player’s career, but looking at this purely on a baseball level, do you really think you trade a 21 year old pitcher who has shown flashes of brilliance, was a top rated prospect, and has only thrown 85 ML innings for him? Absolutely not.

by bfriley76 on Apr 18, 2008 4:03 PM EDT   0 recs

Welcome to the ...

baseball challenged world of Aroth—a byproduct of hyperbole and acid reflux who likely hasn’t ventured outside of his 10×8 cell/room/dorm to experience life. Instead, he cooks up wild allegations, stories and situations that are both off track and misguided.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Apr 18, 2008 4:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

insert Muttley snicker here

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Apr 18, 2008 5:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

East folks

I remeber talking about whether I’d trade Moose Skowron for Vic Power. This kind of hypothetical abseball talk is just good clean fun.

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Apr 19, 2008 10:23 AM EDT   0 recs

I like Power

Cool first name and probably has abit more speed than Moose. I’d pull the trigger on that trade.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Apr 21, 2008 12:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Good, clean and fun

are not words usually found to describe one of Roth’s fanposts.

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Apr 21, 2008 1:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Question

Is that avatar by choice or has it been assigned by the site administrators? I think it would be hilarious if it was assigned to him.

and while we are doing hypos; can we trade Moeller and Shelley Duncan for Manny and Ortiz? That would be pretty cool.

by seanp23 on Apr 19, 2008 12:01 PM EDT   0 recs

So where is this mid 90's fastball you wrote to me about last May?

Welcome to PA, andyroth
Many Yankees fans will agree with you on the Cashman and Torre argument, but most disagree with your argument against Hughes.
Let’s give the guy more than one start in the major-leagues before you declare him overrated.

His fastball reaches the mid-90s and that’s plenty hard to succeed in this league.

by andyroth on Apr 19, 2008 3:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

His fastball does reach the mid-90s

but that’s different than saying his fastball is consistently in the mid-90s. It does say a lot about you and your credibility because you were knocking this kid way back in May of last season – before he ever had a chance to get his feet wet.

I know you don’t like the kids, but jeez, give him a chance to develop. Virtually every major scout thinks he’s going to be a big-time pitcher in this game. Jim Palmer, who knows a thing or two about pitching, was raving about him last night on the O’s broadcast.

Here’s what the Hardball Times said about Hughes in July of ‘07:

Hughes’ ace-like projections are based solely off of one pitch: an uber-strong fastball, typically a four-seamer but also with some two-seam stuff mixed in. It tops out at 96 mph and regularly sits in the 91-95 mph zone. Combine that with plus command and you have a top-draw strike out pitch. Let’s define plus command. Simply put, he can place the ball exactly where he wants when he wants while hurling 95 mph gas. This command and power combination will sit at the cornerstone of Hughes’ success or failure for years to come. If he becomes a Hall-of-Fame caliber pitcher it will be because of this, likewise if he sinks to obscurity. He launches the fastball around 60-70% of the time.

Hughes has a plus 12-6/1-7 curveball that supplements his fastball; he throws the curve 20-30% of the time. Incredibly when he was drafted Hughes didn’t have a curveball but Yankees minor league pitching coach, Nardi Contreras, made him swap his slider for a curve largely to reduce pressure on the arm that the slider imparts. You’d have thought it would have taken a while for Hughes to master the pitch wouldn’t you? No. Within a few months, and after a bit of help from Mike Mussina, Hughes had one of the finest curves in the minors. This ability to quickly learn new pitches is also why many suspect he’ll age well. What he’ll lose in velocity he should more than make up for in guile. Oh, and did I mentioned he has Zito-esque control of the pitch. Want it above the zone? Or prefer it in the dirt? Or want him to pain the top-left corner? Nine times out of 10, Hughes will hit the spot.

Obviously he still has his slider although he doesn’t use it all that much, if at all. He’ll probably keep it in his back pocket and throw it on the odd occasion when a hitter may have worked out his combinations.

The only pitch he hasn’t yet mastered is the change-up. The speed/change combo is one of the most devastating in baseball. Santana has got it down to a tee and it sat at the heart of Pedro’s historic seasons in the late 1990s. If Hughes wants to become a top draw pitcher he’ll need to acquire it. He can throw it but struggles to locate it properly and as such tends to launch his curve when in trouble, which can hang and get launched into the seats. That’s one of the reasons why the Yankees were reluctant to push him into their rotation this year: they were keen for him to develop the change into a plus pitch while serving time in AAA.

Let me repeat: This combination of power and command has the potential to underpin a Hall-of-Fame career. Many pitchers have the command; many pitchers have the power. But Hughes has both, and he is just 21 years old. If, and this is a big if for young pitchers, he can stay healthy, he should be established in the rotation by 2008 and the staff ace by 2009.

by anaconda on Apr 19, 2008 4:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

All this means NOTHING

and you wasted your F-in time with that post from Hardball Times because since the very first game I saw Hughes throw and up until his last start, he basically sits at 91. I dare you to find video of numerous games where he was consistently at 93-95. As for the Hardball Times they had these glowing words for Ian Kennedy in their 2008 Season Preview: KENNEDY DOESN’T HAVE MUCH OF A FASTBALL, AND HIS OTHER PITCHES ARE GOOD BUT NOT GREAT. IF EVERYTHING GOES GREAT, AND HE HAS GOOD CONTROL, HE COULD BE A PRETTY GOOD PITCHER, BUT HE COULD ALSO TURN OUT TO BE NOTHING. HIS STUFF IS SO UNIMPRESSIVE.

by andyroth on Apr 19, 2008 10:56 PM EDT   0 recs

Consider yourself warned

Writing in all caps and shouting at me doesn’t enhance your argument one iota.

I’ve given you a long leash and you’ve done nothing to generate real baseball discussion in this forum. Your posts and diaries have provoked little more than playground name-calling back and forth. It’s getting to the point where I’m rolling my eyes every time I see your name.

Play nice or I’m going to have to pull the plug on you for good. Thanks.

by anaconda on Apr 19, 2008 11:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh. Please. Do.

Pull.The.Plug.

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Apr 20, 2008 1:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I've done nothing to generate real baseball discussion?

Really? The first posting where I said it was ridiculous that the Yankees were such huge favorites to beat the Indians in the ALDS and criticized Torre for scheduling Wang for games one and five on the road with Wang’s poor track record on the road and that the Indians had the better starting pitcher in games one and two and you couldn’t say the Yanks had the edge in games 3 and 4 with Clemens pitching off an injury and having no faith in Mussina. And I finally stated that the Indians had a much deeper bullpen, actually the best in baseball 2-5, and it gave them an edge over the Yankees in that area. And I took heat for that. Why should that have happened?

by andyroth on Apr 19, 2008 11:34 PM EDT   0 recs

Remember that time

when I posted nebulous statements regurgitated from the mass media and tried to pass it off as my own insightful comments?

by seanp23 on Apr 20, 2008 10:05 AM EDT   0 recs

:)

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Apr 20, 2008 7:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Andy ... Andy, dear ...

it’s your nurse. Time to take your “happy pills” and take a nap.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Apr 21, 2008 12:11 PM EDT   0 recs

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