New York Yankees @ Tampa Bay Rays GameThread, Apr 14, 2008 7:10 PM EDT

Game #14 - New York Yankees @ Tampa Bay Rays

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 6:45 PM EDT in Game Threads Comment 147 comments

New York Yankees @ Tampa Bay Rays

New York Yankees

Johnny Damon, LF
Derek Jeter, SS
Bobby Abreu, RF
Álex Rodríguez, 3B
Hideki Matsui, LF
Morgan Ensberg, 1B
Melky Cabrera, CF
Chad Moeller, C
Alberto Gonzalez, 2B

Ian Kennedy, RHP (0-1, 13.50 ERA)

Tampa Bay Rays

Akinori Iwamura, 2B
Carl Crawford, LF
Carlos Peňa, 1B
B.J. Upton, CF
Evan Longoria, 3B
Eric Hinske, DH
Shawn Riggans, C
Nathan Haynes, RF
Jason Bartlett, SS

Andy Sonnanstine, RHP (1-1, 6.00 ERA)

Captain Jeter returns to the starting lineup tonight while Cano and Giambi are both given the night off. Gonzalez makes his first start at 2B and Moeller makes his debut behind the dish.

Tonight's pitching matchup is a rematch of Game #4 in which the Rays beat the Yanks in a 13-4 route at Yankee Stadium ten days ago.

Sonnanstine is a lifetime 2-1, 3.98 ERA in three starts against the Yankees. Kennedy is a lifetime 1-1, 6.75 ERA in two starts against the Rays.

Yanks career numbers vs. Sonnanstine can be viewed here. Rays career numbers vs. Kennedy can be viewed here.

Finally, if you haven't checked out construction photos of new Yankee Stadium on Sliding Into Home - you should. Greg always has great photos of the new yard that you can't find anywhere else and has plenty of weekly updates.

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Comments

Looks like Damon is seeing the ball well

and starting to get hot. He walked three times last night and smoked that pitch to leadoff the game.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 7:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

now we just need to make that

in pill form and give a little of it to Jeter and Robbie

Crowds are won and lost and won again, but our hearts beat for the diehards.

by Edwantsacracker on Apr 14, 2008 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't come

in pill form, but I hear you can have it injected.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

C'mon smart guy....

You could make a lot of money with that invention.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good start for Kennedy

Tonight is the night we see the real Kennedy.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 7:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I hope so.

It would be good to give the bullpen a break. They have been doing a good job, but if we keep going to them in the third inning it isn't gonna last.

Crowds are won and lost and won again, but our hearts beat for the diehards.

by Edwantsacracker on Apr 14, 2008 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess the Yanks like playing indoors

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 7:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The temperature is a lot better in here

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Apr 14, 2008 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm checking in on gameday from the

library. How does IPK look?

Crowds are won and lost and won again, but our hearts beat for the diehards.

by Edwantsacracker on Apr 14, 2008 7:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

18 pitches

13 strikes
2 innings

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Apr 14, 2008 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I got that from gameday

I was asking you to use your eyes!

Crowds are won and lost and won again, but our hearts beat for the diehards.

by Edwantsacracker on Apr 14, 2008 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Strikes

on both sides of the plate. Remember the article where Pilletere (AA catcher) said that IPK could get by with nothing but the fastball because his control was so good? Tonight we're seeing that (so far, knock wood).

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sonnanstine must be

tipping his curve. The radio crew is saying that all hits have been on the breaking ball.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 7:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

or the Yanks are seeing the ball

better this time around.

"You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the baseball card at the end of the year." - Paul O'Neill

by yankee come lately on Apr 14, 2008 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not playing

in the cold and rain certainly helps.

How's that for statistical analysis?

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rock on, Bill James!

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great Job Chad

What a great job by Moeller to spoil that pitch out.

by Greg C. on Apr 14, 2008 8:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

really was

"You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the baseball card at the end of the year." - Paul O'Neill

by yankee come lately on Apr 14, 2008 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd be nice to get Ian a W here tonight

early or not you don't want to have a Bonderman situation

"You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the baseball card at the end of the year." - Paul O'Neill

by yankee come lately on Apr 14, 2008 8:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Since when do they allow hitters

to use 6ft long bats?

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 8:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

borrowed from Bugs Bunny

"You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the baseball card at the end of the year." - Paul O'Neill

by yankee come lately on Apr 14, 2008 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

or the broom closet

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

apparently he was scared of our

big bad number 9 hitter and didn't want to give him a pitch to hit?

Crowds are won and lost and won again, but our hearts beat for the diehards.

by Edwantsacracker on Apr 14, 2008 8:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nice work from the back end of the order there

Bring 'em home Johnny

by mrljdavid on Apr 14, 2008 8:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Get the bal in the air Johnny

by Greg C. on Apr 14, 2008 8:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Dare to dream?

Scoring more than 6 runs finally?

by mrljdavid on Apr 14, 2008 8:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

YES

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Apr 14, 2008 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hurray!

by mrljdavid on Apr 14, 2008 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damon is definitely starting to heat up

or at least I hope so.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 8:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well

he certainly was due

"You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the baseball card at the end of the year." - Paul O'Neill

by yankee come lately on Apr 14, 2008 8:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's nice to see the other kid

get Yanked early in the game.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 8:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It sure is.

by Greg C. on Apr 14, 2008 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

BTW...

Again, nice job on the Stadium photos. I live about 800 miles away from Yankee Stadium so photos are all I'm going to see of that place for awhile.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's an "everybody hits" night!

by mrljdavid on Apr 14, 2008 8:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

that's why Giambi got the night off

"You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the baseball card at the end of the year." - Paul O'Neill

by yankee come lately on Apr 14, 2008 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I bet even he would have gotten a hit

by mrljdavid on Apr 14, 2008 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

whats going on

Im stuck watching a dvr'd episode of Rock of Love.

Girlfriends...

by seanp23 on Apr 14, 2008 8:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

playing wining baseball

good pitching, timely hitting

"You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the baseball card at the end of the year." - Paul O'Neill

by yankee come lately on Apr 14, 2008 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

y7 tb1

top of the 4th
starter for tb out
IPK looking pretty solid

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Apr 14, 2008 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nice

Should watch Brett Michaels more often.

by seanp23 on Apr 14, 2008 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You can't watch the game because your girl won't let you?

by Greg C. on Apr 14, 2008 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

don't marry her

"You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the baseball card at the end of the year." - Paul O'Neill

by yankee come lately on Apr 14, 2008 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

to be fair

I have been dominating the TV for a very long time. Yanks, Rangers etc.

Gotta know when to hold em and when to fold em.

by seanp23 on Apr 14, 2008 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair

you should never not watch a Yankee game for a girlfriend. When she's gone the Yankees will still be there.

by Greg C. on Apr 14, 2008 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

When shes gone

I'll be more worried about how Im going to make up her share of the rent.

by seanp23 on Apr 14, 2008 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

I'm just messing around.

by Greg C. on Apr 14, 2008 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well looks like Alex is locked in

by Greg C. on Apr 14, 2008 8:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Finally

the bats are alive and kicking.

by docgonzo on Apr 14, 2008 8:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's great to see, isn't it.

by Greg C. on Apr 14, 2008 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow

"You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the baseball card at the end of the year." - Paul O'Neill

by yankee come lately on Apr 14, 2008 8:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

that did not look like a swing

that would carry the ball to the wall

"You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the baseball card at the end of the year." - Paul O'Neill

by yankee come lately on Apr 14, 2008 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He and Bruce

are the best hitting prospects in the league.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he's halfway to making me a believer already

"You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the baseball card at the end of the year." - Paul O'Neill

by yankee come lately on Apr 14, 2008 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damon has to make that play

by Greg C. on Apr 14, 2008 8:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Indeed

Very catchable ball. At least he brought his bat with him tonight.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damn, and IPK was so close to getting his ERA under 9.00

by mrljdavid on Apr 14, 2008 8:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Who was it

who was asking for more stolen bases?

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 8:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What is it with the stupid cowbells?

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 8:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You always

need more cowbell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVbAuMr5eac

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's a famous Gulf of Mexico fishing technique

it attracts the sharks, and rays

"You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the baseball card at the end of the year." - Paul O'Neill

by yankee come lately on Apr 14, 2008 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is that right?

I thought I was just watching a Little League game.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I

got a great real estate del for you two

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Apr 14, 2008 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

deal

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Apr 14, 2008 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh well....

the joke would be on you because I think Jscape and I have about $10 between us.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd take it

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Apr 14, 2008 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

I bought a couple boxes of pasta today. So we're down to $9.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK let's get the kid a W

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Apr 14, 2008 8:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The rest of the team could use one too

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Apr 14, 2008 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How many pitches

is IPK at?

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 8:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

71

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He pitches at least one more inning then

And then I go to Jonny A and Bruney.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kennedy still has a good change

Oh yeah, Happy Birthday, Kyle Farnsworth.

YOU SUCK!!!!

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 8:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ha!

Rookie

"You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the baseball card at the end of the year." - Paul O'Neill

by yankee come lately on Apr 14, 2008 8:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Explain yourself, sir

by docgonzo on Apr 14, 2008 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Longoria thought he'd walked on ball three

went all the way to first ,and then had to come back to the plate

"You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the baseball card at the end of the year." - Paul O'Neill

by yankee come lately on Apr 14, 2008 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nevermind

by docgonzo on Apr 14, 2008 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not often you hear Pantera

at a baseball game.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 9:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I hope that trend continues

by docgonzo on Apr 14, 2008 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It makes me chuckle

to see how the "Devil's music" of yesteryear has turned into mainstream tunes at family-oriented events like baseball games.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nice

"You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the baseball card at the end of the year." - Paul O'Neill

by yankee come lately on Apr 14, 2008 9:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nice start Ian

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Apr 14, 2008 9:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nice job by Kennedy tonight

He's done.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 9:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Phew

Got out of what could've been an ugly inning. Good job by IPK.

by docgonzo on Apr 14, 2008 9:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Good on you, IPK

by mrljdavid on Apr 14, 2008 9:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Do we want to see Moose?

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Apr 14, 2008 9:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No BP or Bullpens this morning

everyone got in late. He's just having his throw day.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are they warming anybody?

IPK's at 92

by docgonzo on Apr 14, 2008 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They warmed Albaladejo and Traber

Then stopped them and warmed Moose

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Apr 14, 2008 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

On the air they'd said

He was asked to be available

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Apr 14, 2008 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Traber will pitch the 7th

He was warming next to Moose and the Rays have the lefties coming up next inning.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 9:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Call me a liar I guess

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

give me a f@#king break

"You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the baseball card at the end of the year." - Paul O'Neill

by yankee come lately on Apr 14, 2008 9:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

what happened?

gameday just said injury break?

Crowds are won and lost and won again, but our hearts beat for the diehards.

by Edwantsacracker on Apr 14, 2008 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

IPK

took a linedrive off the hip. Winced some, but is hopefully ok.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kennedy had a comebacker lined off his hip

I'm no doctor but I doubt he's going to have much more than a bruise.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

we have a save situation. Get Mo up.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 9:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Let's see

if we can get by without Joba for at least one game.

This week will be a very interesting preview of what life will be like without Joba in the pen.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 14, 2008 9:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ahem....

Keep trusting Bruney.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 14, 2008 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look what you've done

Sigh.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gruesome

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 14, 2008 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well shit

What a lousy time for Brian Bruney to remember who he is.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 9:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

wow that got ugly fast

Crowds are won and lost and won again, but our hearts beat for the diehards.

by Edwantsacracker on Apr 14, 2008 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

At least

he was throwing strikes

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 14, 2008 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's true

You throw strikes, sooner or later someone is going to turn on one. I'd rather have a death by homers than a death by walks.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sonnanstine threw strikes too

And he also got hammered.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i was joking

but i guess that's true.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 14, 2008 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's just hope Bruney

doesn't drown his troubles in three tubs of ice cream like in the past.

by mrljdavid on Apr 14, 2008 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jesus

I should never have stopped watching Brett Michaels. Things were going so well..

by seanp23 on Apr 14, 2008 9:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yanks need

to put down the bats and pick up the tasers.

by seanp23 on Apr 14, 2008 9:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Damn....

that was a bomb.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 9:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

he's pretty good

by seanp23 on Apr 14, 2008 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Cano, Damon, and A-Rod get going....

8 runs won't be all that uncommon over the next couple of weeks.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and lets hope

the weather is cooperative too.

by seanp23 on Apr 14, 2008 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

60's and sunny

will be waiting for them here in NYC this week.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 14, 2008 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jeez

Streling and Waldman are on another Joba has to stay in the pen kick.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 9:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I always forget

How all the talking heads passed on GM positions to work in the media...

by seanp23 on Apr 14, 2008 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Suzyn Waldman's opinion means nothing to me on every topic

I wouldn't trust her judgement on driving directions or good NY restaurants.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hideki Matsui

recommends Benihanna.

by seanp23 on Apr 14, 2008 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Idiots

Perhaps the pen wouldn't be so taxed if the starters do their job night after night.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 9:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You mean like tonight?

Seems to me like the bullpen pooped on a good job by the starter.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 14, 2008 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll give you a whole lot more examples

of the ill-effects of poor starts and a taxed pen. Namely, the Yanks in 2005, 2006, and 2007.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

and while you're at it find examples of how the Yanks can win with these losers in the pen.

ONE NIGHT AND ALREADY A FOUR OUT SAVE!!!!!!!!!

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 14, 2008 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

All I have to say is 4-9 over the last 13 postseason games

They can't beat elite teams when they're down 7-2 in the 7th inning. That's a fact.

Joba, Mo, and The Nasty Boys circa 1990 can't do anything to help win playoff games if they rarely get the opportunity to pitch.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Two of those nine

are on Wang last year. I consider those starts an abberation and throw them out. He's too good to be that bad.

One of those nine came after a gem from Pettitte.

The rest came from games started by guys who won't ever have the ball in their hands as a Yankee starter in the playoffs again (Moose included) and as such are totally irrelevant to the 2008 Yankees.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 14, 2008 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's easy to throw out games when they go against your theory

The bottom line is that this team has been built to win in the regular season and I want to see them built to win in the postseason. I like Wang, but he didn't pitch well. And Clemens didn't pitch well either.

Now, the Yanks did win with your ideal 1-2 punch in '96, but they went on to win 3 rings and 5 more pennants over the next 7 years on the strength of their starting pitching and Mo to close it out.

Personally, I'd rather have the latter. A strong foursome in the rotation makes the latter much more likely to happen.

Solid arms in the pen won't be taxed when the starters do their job. And Bruney ain't gonna be the primary 8th inning guy when Joba moves to the rotation.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

its easy to throw out two bad starts by one of baseball's best starting pitchers for three years running.

Why can we throw out Arod's postseason numbers but not Wang's?

Clemens ?? He's gone.

Name a team in the AL with a better 1-2 combo than Wang and Pettitte. Dice-K is Boston's #2, and he's horrible. If it's Pettitte vs. Dice-K in game 2, every cent I own is on Andy.

Sabathia and Carmona? Maybe, but Wang and CC were equally bad in game 1, and Pettitte and Fausto were equally good last year.

Everyone's #3 starter is just as questionable as the Yanks. That's where offense and a strong bullpen come in. Your boy Alex can help with the offense, and Joba & Mo are the best combo in MLB. That's how you win these days.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 14, 2008 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Webb and Haren

The Peavy and Young duo is vastly underrated.
While Lily has been terrible so far this year, last yeah he and Zambrano were every inch a match for Wang-Pettitte.
Hell, last year Buerle and Vasquez matched up with our top two.
Shields and 2007 K-King Kazmir are presently equal with vastly more upside.

Halladay and Burnett are the best so long as Burnett stays off the DL.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

On re-read

you did ask for AL teams with a better duo. So I'll settle for Toronto, Tampa, Chicago in that order, with a nod to Cleveland because I think both their pitchers are due for breakdowns, and a hat tip to the Angels because both their starters did break down.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 14, 2008 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess

I should have specified that the teams should have a realistic chance of winning THIS year.

So throw Tampa out (I’m not sure how they got in), Toronto yes, but most everyone here doesn’t give them a shot. Angels yes, but I didn’t count them because as you say they’re already hurt.

Buerle and Vasquez against Wang and Pettitte? I’d take all your money on those matchups.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 15, 2008 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

2007

IP ERA H/9 BB/9 K/9
Pettitte 215.1, 4.05, 9.95, 2.88, 5.89
Wang 199.1, 3.70, 9.00, 2.66, 4.70

Buehrle 201.0, 3.63, 9.31, 2.30, 5.15
Vazquez 216.2, 3.74, 8.19, 2.08, 8.85

Now that you’ve narrowed it down to contenders I’ll concede your point.

My point is that a one-two combo at the top of a rotation isn’t enough if you can’t get better than average the rest of the way- and Wang and Pettitte are really in the “better than average” mold rather than the classic Spahn/ Sain, Koufax/Drysdale, Schilling/Johnson one-two punch.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 15, 2008 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As usual

i did a bad job trying to make a point.

The point is, the AL is not like it used to be. No one team in the league would have a decided edge over the Yankees in the playoffs because of who is starting for them. I believe Wang will be closer to great than the bad he was last year if he gets the chance. It seems like he’s on a mission.

So if starting pitching is a wash, the Yankees would have a huge edge because their back end of the bullpen is way better than everyone else’s (Okajima isn’t that good). And their offense, if it finally decides to function properly, is also superior to all.

If you take away Joba, the Yanks go from best to worst in the bullpen department among contenders, and to me a real chance to win the WS goes out the window.

I don’t think that’s worth giving up so he can throw 50 more innings next year.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 15, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You wanna fight me, don't you? Ha Ha

I don't care about a solid 1-2 punch in the rotation. I want a strong 1-4 punch in the rotation.

You have contradicting yourself. You have admitted before that Joba's best fit long term is in the rotation. You just want to wait until next season. Now, you're telling me that Joba in the pen ishow you win these days.

Which is it?

I know you don't want to hear about the young arms that can help the team later in the season. But, if the Yanks would have taken that stance a year ago, Joba would never have gotten the opportunity last August.

I'm not expecting the other young arms to be as dominant as Joba. But they don't have to be if the starters do their job. I believe they can muster a few kids who will be able to do a solid job. Ohlendorf is one of them and I don’t like seeing him pitching 3 inning stints.

I don't know why you want to continue this argument because neither of us is going to persuade the other.

by anaconda on Apr 14, 2008 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because

your arguments are all theoretical.

All I need to do is watch games with Joba, and then watch games without him.

Joba does belong in the rotation, but you want to make that move before there is even a reasonable assurance that someone else can do his job.
That will lead to losing, and you may be fine with that, but I’m not, and I know guys named Hank, Hal and George certainly aren’t either.

There is no hurry to make this move. They will be in a much better position to do this next season. I can’t for the life of me figure out why that is so difficult to understand.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 15, 2008 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, they aren't theoretical

They are based on facts that have transpired both in recent history and the basic formula every GM in baseball has followed for decades. You put your best arms in the rotation and use failed starters for the middle relief.

You and I can keep going in circles over this argument but it doesn’t make any sense. Frankly, I’m getting dizzy because we have rehashing the same arguments since November.

The truth of the matter is that our opinions don’t count in the final decision-making process. The ones that do count all agree with my view that Joba needs to make the move to the rotation this season.

by anaconda on Apr 15, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We'll see

How much the powers that be believe in that decision when the push comes to the proverbial shove. I don’t think they have the stones.

Especially if Bruney keeps blowing five run leads.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 15, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re:

We wouldn’t be having this conversation if Cashman didn’t have faith in the young arms in the organization because Joba would never have gotten the opportunity to help the team late last season.

How many people were tearing Cashman a new one on this very blog because he refused to deal a Kennedy/Melky for Eric Gagne (or Joba for Teixeira for that matter)?

He took the heat and still promoted kids with no major league experience to help the team. It paid off big time.

Don’t be so sure that can’t happen again. Cashman has a whole lot of faith in the young arms in the organization and he has shown he’s willing to gamble on them.

by anaconda on Apr 15, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs