"Brace yourself for Andy Roth."

by andyroth on Apr 10, 2008 2:14 AM EDT

Girardi, Torre, Bochy...The blind leading the blind. I guess Joe G thought if it was a good enough move for the other two morons I may as well do it too, even though Ian Kennedy was very clear after the game that he wasn't comfortable at all coming out of the pen. Even David Cone knew what effect it would have on a fellow starting pitcher. Girardi Grade: F-

And the ball Butler hit off Farnsworthless just landed at JFK. Is anybody concerned yet what happens to the pen when Joba goes to the rotation, or will Hapless Hank have to eat his words after saying Joba would eventually be in the roatation after the season opener?

Just remember you don't win championships with "Clowns In Pinstripes" running the show.

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Again, you're not taking into account that neither Farnsworth nor Hawkins are going to be handed the 8th inning keys when Joba moves to the rotation.

Everyone else in that bullpen has done a good job thus far and they will get even more help from the young arms later in the season.

by anaconda on Apr 10, 2008 7:46 AM EDT 0 recs

But

with Joba gone, they both will have to be relied upon more than are now, and that is hazardous to the Yanks won-loss record.

And since I don't see the Yanks cutting or dumping off either one of them (unfortunately), how are they going to fit all of these other young arms on the roster????

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 10, 2008 8:45 AM EDT up 0 recs

I'm certainly taking it into account

Joba is probably the best setup man in baseball right now. NOBODY that takes his spot in the pen is going to be near his level and you have to be a complete fool to think somebody will. Let's say Ohlendorf for arguments sake is the guy. First of all you're going to have a major dropoff and the Yankees will no longer be at least 90% plus to win the game with the lead after 7. And tell me right now who will be the guys who will give the Yankees quality innings in the 6th and 7th when needed? Who will give the Yanks what Jensen Lewis and Rafael Perez give the Indians.?

I was talking with a friend of mine last night who used to be a network statistician and producer for NBC Sports and YES about not getting Santana when the Yankees could've easily topped the Met's package without destroying the farm system. I'm sure Kennedy, Marquez and Melky could have gotten the deal done. By the way, all this talk from within the organization and other scouts that Kennedy was the most polished of the Holy Trinity was a ridiculous comment when you consider the pure stuff Joba has compared to IPK. Who would sign up now for that package to get Santana. You may be thinking I'm beating a dead horse, but again it comes down to having to put up with one completely inept franchise blowing the opportunity to get the game's best pitcher at just 29.

by andyroth on Apr 10, 2008 9:42 AM EDT up 0 recs

dead horse...

beaten.

the thing to think about is this time last year nobody was talking about Joba coming to fill that eigth inning spot. but he did. now i am not suggesting that there is someone right now at scranton or trenton that has joba's pure stuff, but there are guys who could progress to the point where they could step up and be the guy if they need them. horne, melancon, etc...

no, it's not a sure thing, but the yanks are far from dead in the water at this point in regards to the eighth inning slot beyond Joba.

You don't realize how easy this game is until you get up in that broadcasting booth. -Mickey Mantle

by NumberSeven on Apr 10, 2008 10:54 AM EDT up 0 recs

Domino effect

You're still not getting it. For this team to start winning in October, the starting pitching needs to get significantly better than it has been in recent years. Leaving him in the bullpen does not improve their most glaring weakness - starting pitching.

A strong starting rotation lessens the need for a dominant 8th inning guy. Just ask the late 90s Yankees after they let Wetteland walk and made Mo the closer in 1997.

Joba is the best young pitcher this team has developed in over a decade and the Yankee FO all agree that his talent is best suited for the rotation. Their opinion on this matter is what counts most.

by anaconda on Apr 10, 2008 12:40 PM EDT up 0 recs

But

what about the new question I brought up today?

You guys love to suggest a million names to pick up the slack - Horne, Marquez, Sanchez, Melancon blah blah blah --- but there are only seven spots in the bullpen, and 25 men on the roster.

It's not realistic to think they will be willing or able to trade or cut Hawkins and/or Farnsworth. There is no room for these guys to even get a shot, unless you send down one of the other members of the pen. Next year, sure. This year, not so much.

What is the big deal about waiting one more year to do this, when they'll only have to worry about the innings of one guy instead of three, and when there will be no dead weight in the bullpen? There's just too much to lose by doing it this year.

Here's a random question: if indeed the move does happen this year, and Joba goes to Tampa to prepare, are the Yanks allowed to replace him on the roster while he's away? Is there a special allowance for this? He's not hurt, so you can't say he's rehabbing. Just curious.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 10, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up 0 recs

Waiting a year retards Joba's growth as a starter and that can't happen. It's better to do it later in the season.

I don't want to see this team in the very same precarious position a year from now because Joba's inning limit is around 130-140 IP in 2009 after spending the entire 2008 season in the pen. Make him a starter this season and his innings cap for next season will be in the 170-180 IP range.

Also, we'll see what happens with the pen later in the season. Girardi has two months to figure out who he trusts and who he doesn't for the late innings. Not including Joba, this will not be the same pen in August than it is in April. Some will be sent down/injured/traded whatever, but it won't look the same as it does now.

If they have to weather the storm for a couple of months because it's best for the team long term, so be it. I'm focusing on 2009 thru 2014 a lot more than 2008.

It's safe to say that you and I will never agree on this issue.

by anaconda on Apr 10, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

But my new point is

This year, they have to worry about Hughes, IPK and Joba' s innings. Next year, they would only have to worry about Joba's. So they won't be in nearly the same precarious position. Why the rush???? What if Moose, Hughes, and IPK are pitching well? Who's gonna get bounced? What if the team is in first place? Why mess with what's not broken? You want to do all of this so Joba can pitch 50 more innings next year? That really doesn't make any sense when you consider what removing him from the pen will do to this year's Yankees.

Next year, they could have Sabathia. Next year, they won't have Farnsworth and Hawkins and they could actually fill those two spots with hard throwing young guys. This year, they're stuck with those two losers, and they need Joba out there to cover for them.

It's not a question of agreeing or disagreeing, we both agree that Joba's future is in the rotation. But there is no logical reason to hurry up and do it this year.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 10, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up 0 recs

To answer your question

about sending him down- they'll just option him to the minors, just like they did with Shelley last night.

As for cutting Hawkins, remember when the Yanks cut Quantril and Stanton?

The Yankees are responsible for Quantrill's $3 million salary this year and a $400,000 buyout of a $3.6 million 2006 option they declined in December. They also are responsible for Stanton's $4 million salary, although they did receive $975,000 from the New York Mets when they acquired him in December for Felix Heredia.

They've done it before, and they'll do it again if Hawkins and Farns can't perform.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 10, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

Interesting

The new program won't let me put blockquotes in a reply. That third paragraph is all a quote from the ESPN article I linked to.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 10, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

Farns

has spent 2.5 years here not performing.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 10, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up 0 recs

No argument about that

But finally in the last year of his contract he's finally movable.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 10, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

Oh

I'm sure you'd rather have had Girardi pull a Josh Johnson or Tim Lincecum. All of my anger over last night's game is directed at the umpires who made them play through that entire game and at the offense. Anemic doesn't begin to cover it.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 10, 2008 11:14 AM EDT 0 recs

I had no problem

With Girardi's decision. His one lapse in judgment was leaving Farnsworth in there for a second inning. Regardless though, you're right. They shouldn't have been playing in that rain, but they wanted to fit the game in, so we have to deal with it I guess.

Silver lining time:
Bruney continues to look nasty. If he keeps pitching like this, I would seriously consider giving him a shot at the 8th. It's early still, and he may revert to the Bruney of old, but you have to like what you're seeing so far.
Also, despite the slow start, it hasn't really been the pitching that's let the Yankees down. I'm confident the hitting will come around, and when it does, they should end up winning games like these 6-4 instead of losing them 4-0.

by bfriley76 on Apr 10, 2008 11:32 AM EDT up 0 recs

Yep

And I have to think that had the score been close in the 6th we might not have seen IPK. Ohly, Hawkins, Joba and Mo were all on tap to close the game more traditionally if they'd had the lead.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 10, 2008 11:51 AM EDT up 0 recs

Huh?

The score was 2-0 when IPK came in.

On the postgame show, Girardi said his plan all along was to use IPK once the game became official. He also said that Ohlendorf pitched 3 innings the game before and was unavailable, and that Hawkins had pitched back to back days and was available in an emergency only.

So there was really no one else available at that point other than Joba, Mo and Kennedy.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Apr 10, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up 0 recs