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Peak thoughts

Sky Kalkman and myself had an interesting debate on peak years. He said it was 25-29, while I insisted it was 27-31. He pointed me in the direction of Tom Tango's peak study, which examined players from 1919 to 1998. However, my own study ranged from 1973 to 2008, as I was more interested in what modern players experience as their peak. Is there a discrepancy because of the era that was studied?

What Sky contended was that 31-year-olds have a lot more opportunities to play than 25-year-olds (skewing the numbers in the favor of the 31-year-olds), because the older guys are 'proven' and perhaps have higher salaries and less minor league options that make it tougher to get rid of them.

I suggested that perhaps the difference in conclusions was due to advances in medical/physical training that allow modern players to perform at a high level into their early 30s. When you include players from before the modern era (which I tentatively define as beginning in 1973, e.g. free agency, the DH, divisional playoffs, PEDs, etc.), it changes the results. I can believe that through the whole history of baseball, prime is 25-29, but like I mentioned, I'm more interested in the prime of modern players.

Click to read the rest of the article.

 

Star-divide

Fewer people attended college before 1973, so it would make sense that professional careers began earlier then, so their peaks would begin earlier too. Now, baseball peak is not necessarily physical peak - it's where a player's declining talent meets up with his improving experience. As we've seen from the Olympics (and our personal experiences), most people's purely physical peak is around 21. It's quite possible that the average MLB player's peak was 25-29 from 1919 to 1998, because despite the fact that their talent was declining, their experience was increasing. (And I wouldn't doubt that a 25-year-old is more physically talented/in shape than a 31-year-old.) Now that players begin their careers later, doesn't it make sense that the experience part of their peak would correspondingly come later as well?

Not to mention all the medical/physical training advances (life expectancy has gone up more than 20 years since 1919) made that allow players' bodies to remain in top shape longer. So if the drop in their physical shape is not as drastic as it used to be (from the late 20s to the early 30s), while their experience goes up just as much as always, why wouldn't peak also last a few years longer?

What I intend to determine is the rookie age for three periods of baseball history: 1919-1941, 1946-1972 (WWII skews everything), and 1973-present. It's also possible (or even probable) that because of the major changes in the economic situation of MLB since 1973, teams keep players in the minors longer so as to not 'start their clock' until an age when the team would get the most value before the player hits arbitration (and then free agency). So this study of rookie ages should help determine that.

What I believe it will show is that peak WAS 25-29 (from 1919 to 1998) because players overall were younger.

Looking at rookie teens in MLB should tell us the trend for each era. 1919-1941 (with an average of 16 teams per season) had 97 rookie teenagers, 1946-72 (with an average of ~20 teams) had 241. But the current era, 1973-2008 (with an average of ~27 teams), has had the fewest by far: 54 (Justin Upton being the most recent in 2007). Without even calculating for percentage, it's safe to say that modern careers start later.

(I also calculated rookie ages up to 21 and found the same pattern: the earlier you go, the more youths you see.)

But are players going into their 40s as often?

1918-1941: 58 players were at least 40

1946-1972: 62

1973-2008: 163

Percentage-wise, it's rather similar between all three eras (because the modern era has the most teams/players). So players seem to be playing about as long. I expected to see far fewer 40+s in the older eras. To speculate, perhaps players are retiring at the same rate now despite being healthier because they have the financial freedom to. Did a lot of players force themselves to play for the paycheck in days past? Regardless, the rookie ages clearly show that the farther back you go, the earlier careers began.

To sum up, I believe peak is now later because:

- Players begin later (due to higher college attendance and teams not wanting to 'start the clock' until later because of money/value), meaning the experience aspect of their peak correspondingly occurs later than it used.

- They have better physical training/medical knowledge that allow them to stay in shape and come back from injuries faster (or at all), meaning their physical prime is extended.

- Players aren't overused (especially pitchers) due to the aforementioned money that's invested in them and the superior usage knowledge we now possess.

 

Some other studies support this:

hitters, by JC Bradbury

pitchers, also by Bradbury (plus I like that he uses 1980-2003 as his sample)

Cyril Morong

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Interesting stuff Travis

I moved a little more of the body onto the front page so it doesn’t look like the first paragraph is the end of the thought.

I think you left out another important aspect of that ability/experience curve: the modern game is harder to learn to play. More pitchers throwing a wider array of pitches harder means that the skills ladder a prospect has to climb is stepper than ever.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Dec 5, 2008 6:29 AM EST   0 recs

*

steeper (think that’s how to spell it this time).

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Dec 5, 2008 6:30 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

that's fair

i dont have hard evidence to back it up, but the older game was probably based more on talent than experience. there was no video scouting, less advanced scouting, every game wasn’t televised, etc. so players relied more on their physical talent as opposed to nowadays when they have extensive and detailed scouting reports on every single player that must be studied by their opponents.

i remember in 2007, Stats, Inc. kept track of every slider Joba threw. no one even made contact with one until #17 (iirc).

by Travis G on Dec 5, 2008 11:37 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

I love when people follow up on ideas. So thanks.

But I don’t see how this study addresses peak age at all. Or maybe we have definitions of what peak age are. I don’t think players starting their MLB careers later or holding on longer necessarily indicates a change in peak years. Peak years, to me, are the years that you would expect to get the best performance out of a player. A single peak year would be the year when you expect improvement heading into that year and for a player to get worse after that year. I realize players all have different curves, but I’m talking about the overall curve.

Could you try something like what Tango did, but for only the past ten years?

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Dec 5, 2008 11:48 AM EST   0 recs

you dont see how?

sorry if it was unclear. i gave my study and 3 others that show peak to be 27-31/28-30, and i gave reasons for the discrepancy between those and Tom Tango’s study. this article wasn’t necessarily a study of ‘what is peak’ but more about the reason for differences between peak studies.

as for doing something like Tango, i dont know if i have the time for that. it took me days to write this one. perhaps early next year.

by Travis G on Dec 6, 2008 8:38 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Oh, ok, I didn't actually check out those articles.

I can’t find the original Bradford article, so I’m not sure what his methodology is. Although, he does point out:

“Players with shorter careers seem to peak earlier than players with longer careers.”

And that fact points out an obvious flaw with Morong’s article: Morong only uses players with at least FOURTEEN seasons in the big leagues. What percent of the population is that? 5%?

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Dec 7, 2008 11:12 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Also, one of the major pieces of Tango's study was regression.

When attempting to measure true talent, you need to regress observed production. I believe without that piece he showed a slightly higher peak than he finally concluded.

Let me also mention I’m not trying to hold strongly to the result of 27 as peak age. I just haven’t seen anything to convince me otherwise. Most studies done in this area aren’t up to snuff, mostly because it’s a really complex question. I don’t think I could tackle it myself, in all honesty.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Dec 7, 2008 11:16 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

all good points

the problem with accounting for every single player is that we cant get a good enough read on guys unless they put in enough time to see a true representation of how good they are. i dont know how much that is. is it 1000 PAs? 3000?

so to me, looking at regulars is a better bet at getting true peak values.

perhaps we could say that above-average MLers tend to peak later than below-average players. but is that merely because they are better and hence have longer peaks, or is it because they play more (being good after all) and get more experience, thereby extending their peak?

by Travis G on Dec 7, 2008 1:06 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Well, for players with little playing time, they count as very small data points.

Or, another way of looking at it, they’ll have their performances a lot more regressed than high-PA players. And you really don’t need THAT much data. Just compare a player’s performance one season to his performance the next.

Of course, separating out aging curves for different skills and different types of players is pretty important. If you know a certain type of player ages faster or slower, you will drastically change your free agent offer. The overall peak doesn’t matter in that case.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Dec 7, 2008 1:09 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

3 components why

1973- about the time free agency and arbitration started. The average and starting salary increased. Players no longer needed to find work in the off season and could get in shape before coming to spring training. You will hear many of the oldtimers talk of how they used to go to spring training to get in shape. The rookie salary today is well in excess of the highest salary any player made in 1973.

Medical advances- Tommy John was getting the first Tommy John surgery. A blown rotator cuff was the end of a career. There was no arthroscopic surgeries, so those routine clean up surgeries players get today are allowed to fester and effect performance. Surgeons can be much more precise today removing cartilidge damage in a knee today. And rehab from such a procedure was much longer as they had to open the entire knee up.
Many careers ended sooner than they would have today.

Improved training methods- weight training, until the last 25 years was not embraced by major league baseball as it was thought that players would lose flexibility and they would become too muscle bound to perform. Clearly that has changed and has helped the player stay in peak shape longer.

by red257 on Dec 5, 2008 1:52 PM EST   0 recs

yes. i tried to touch on those aspects.

another one that i was thinking about was the potential effects of war. we were at war in the late teens, early 40s, and late 60s, and each of the eras i studied began right after those. i wonder if those impacted rookie ages and length of careers, etc.

by Travis G on Dec 6, 2008 8:41 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

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