How much for (Hanley) Ramirez?

by Travis G on Dec 31, 2008 10:51 PM EST in Miscellaneous Comment 25 comments

As I sit here on New Year's Eve, trying to get through Mamma Mia with my relatives, I thought I'd start a debate -

The Red Sox recently tried to trade for the Marlins' Hanley Ramirez. Ironically, he was originally a top Boston prospect - he was eventually part of the package that netted Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell. Florida wanted some combination of Jacoby Ellsbury, Clay Buchholz and other prospects, but a trade was never finalized.

My question is: what would you give up from the Yankees' system to acquire Hanley? His numbers are just sick (career 135 OPS+, 137 SB), especially considering he's a shortstop and just turned 25. His defense is often criticized, but it's more reputation than fact - he was three runs above average this year (by comparison, Derek Jeter was four runs below average.)

Where might he play? If Robbie Cano is part of the package, problem solved. If not, he could probably make a decent transition to center-field.

The only player I wouldn't give up is Joba. Cano, Phil Hughes, Jesus Montero and Austin Jackson are all available for a player of Hanley's quality. He's an established perennial All-Star at 25, and is more valuable than another (recent) Marlin, Miguel Cabrera, because he plays defense, runs, and seems to be in shape.

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And Joba

I’d definitely give up Joba and more for Hanley. As good as Joba is, Hanley is a superstar talent, and, as you said is “an established perennial All-Star at 25” and an MVP candidate. I’d trade anyone for him – he’s a top 5 player. Maybe not everyone, Jose Molina is off-limits.

"I'm a man who discovered the wheel and built the Eiffel Tower out of metal and brawn. That's what kind of man I am. You're just a woman with a small brain. With a brain a third the size of us. It's science." - Ron Burgundy

by J-Gao on Jan 1, 2009 1:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Haha

Hold on—you’d trade everyone but not Molina? You don’t think we could find another backup catcher? Sure, he wouldn’t have the chemistry with our pitching staff that Molina has built up, but Molina will have to get used to two new starters anyway.

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Jan 1, 2009 1:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i really dont even think that hanley is available

his contract is favorable for the marlins and they would absolutely have to be over whelmed by an offer to trade him, so joba would probably have to be added in any deal.

joba,cano,montero and austin jackson might be enough for him

MLB-Rays,Marlins,Twins, and Reds
NFL-Vikings,Lions(i know Shut up),texans, and Bills
NBA-Timberwolves(also shut up),Cavilers(bye bye LeBron in '10)
NHL- Wild and Penguins
College-Gophers,Gators,Longhorns and Irish.
all of the above mentioned teams are in order by my favorites

by RaysOfHope on Jan 1, 2009 1:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Hanley Ramirez

Love this guy. If he was playing in a large market city, he would be huge. Guys a beast

"Hey Derek do you actually drive the Edge?","I don't drive that piece of crap!"

by Da Shiz on Jan 1, 2009 1:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Deal

The Marlins, at this point, would probably want something like Joba, Jackson, Montero, and one or two of Coke, Melancon, Betances, Brackman, McAllister, et al. I wouldn’t pull the trigger on that. We’re trying to build and develop an organization here, not keep drafting and then trading away all our prospects. Our farm shouldn’t be a place for other teams’ future stars to grow. They should be our stars which we supplement, when we don’t have a good piece to fill a role in the minors, with free agents and trades.

If they would take Cano, Kennedy, Horne, and another pitching prospect, I would probably do it. But that probably wouldn’t be strong enough for them if they wouldn’t take Ellsbury, Buccholz, and others.

But they couldn’t use Cano because they already have an excellent 2B in Dan Uggla (though he clearly has more defensive issues than does Cano, which was on display at Yankee Stadium in the 2008 All-Star Game). I would trade Cano if they’d take him, though, because Ramirez would be a superior replacement (I wouldn’t trade Cano for anyone other than a middle infielder, however, because our other option (signing Orlando Hudson) is worse). I suppose they could try Cano at their vacancy at 3rd, since Cano played there some in the minors.

As much as I’d love to have Hanley Ramirez (believe me, I’m planning to draft him 1st in my fantasy league, if I can), I wouldn’t trade Joba because we’re depending on him for our rotation this year, and he has more value to us than would Ramirez, at least for 2009. 2B, CF, and offense in general is not as much an issue either short- or long-term as building a solid rotation, which we have almost done. And while Ramirez would easily slide back over to SS after Jeter can no longer play the position (or if we gasp don’t re-sign him after the ‘10 season), and while we don’t currently have another SS in our organization ready to take his place (though once future Tar Heel Garrison Lassiter may be on a quick rise), I would wait to trade for him, if ever, until Ramirez’s contract becomes too expensive and the cheap Marlins are actively shopping him. We’ll then have more competition, but we’ll also better know our needs and have an even better, more versatile, and less vulnerable farm from which to draw.

I also wouldn’t trade AJax because our farm is fairly thin at OF, and in 2010, we’ll have up to 2 OF spots and the DH spot to fill either from within or without, and I’d rather do the former as much as possible. This is assuming Swisher plays corner OF full-time starting next year; if not, or if we end up trading him, it’s 3 OF spots to fill from Gardner, Cabrera, Jackson, Swisher, and free agents (of which only Matt Holliday and Jason Bay are worth pursuing).

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Jan 1, 2009 2:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Cano

wouldn’t work just because they’ve already got Hanley on a comparable deal.
Joba, Jackson, Melancon, and cash. Probably another arm too.

I don’t think I’d pull the trigger on that. If Joba can make it as a starter health wise he’ll be as or more valuable than Ramirez. And the price for a 25 year old AS cost controlled shortstop will be higher than the price for Santana.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Jan 1, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly, totally agreed n/t

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Jan 1, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hanley R

1. I would wait 2 years because HR’s salary escalates precipitously, At that point the Marlins might be more in the mood to move him.

2. I would start talking to Jeter now to prepare him for the inevitable time when he must move positions. I would try to give him time in the outfield now (spring training) and I would base his next contract on his willingness to move to another position.

3. Lastly, I would expect the Marlins to shop HR aggressively once they decide they need to move him so I look at the Marlins roster and try to project what their needs might be in 2 years and would try to position my rosters with players who would be needed by them.
I know … that is a lot of planning for a future that may never happen but I doubt that the Marlins will want to deal HR until they feel the financial pressure to do so.

by m1kew on Jan 1, 2009 10:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed, except...

…I’m not sure trying Jeter in OF in this year’s spring training does anything for us or him. He wouldn’t use those skills in the regular season for another few years, and it would just cause a lot of press to swirl around him, questioning his defense, his future place on the team, etc., etc.—questions we don’t need until the time comes for them to be reality.

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Jan 1, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Joba Chamberlain is absolutely, positively untouchable.

He is the new face of the Yankees. We aren’t (and shouldn’t be thinking about) trading him for anybody.

by 3460kuri on Jan 1, 2009 1:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

l love joba

but i would trade him in a heartbeat for hanley straight up—if only the marlins were that dumb.

the point is that this trade is pure fantasy because the cost for the yankees would be something like: joba, hughes, jackson, and montero. as a team with a farm system that lacks in upper level depth, we obviously could make such a trade.

however, the sox rumor is somewhay believable because they seem to have more major league ready talent. losing buccholtz for them isn’t as devastating as losing joba for us.

by tombradylikesdudes on Jan 1, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A little to bullish

This could send the yanks farm system back 10 years. And erase all depth in the organization. The yanks are losing draft picks threw signing 3 type A free agents.
If you need a out fielder sign Pat Burrell or Manny keep spending not trading youth.

by Red Sox #1 Fan on Jan 1, 2009 4:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

OK...

I was with you until your last suggestion. We don’t need OFs except maybe a short-term CF. We may be trying to trade a corner OF. So why would we want a FA corner OF? And what does wanting an OF have to do with Hanley Ramirez?

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Jan 1, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And losing draft picks

Yes, we’ll lose our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders. But we’ll get the two protected picks from the unsigned draftees in last year’s class (1st round and supplemental). And the other picks will shuffle some more when Abreu and Irod sign other places.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Jan 3, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yes and no

the Yanks still have 1st and sandwich rd picks bc they didnt sign 08’s picks in those rounds. but they also didnt offer arbitration to Abreu or Irod, so they wont get anything when they sign elsewhere.

by Travis G on Jan 3, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

wow sucks to have to many options?

Hanley Ramirez has no room Jeter and arod are on the team it make more sense to have Manny cause he can Dh then you can package a trade because you have a surplus out fielders to add to a trade for a CF

by Red Sox #1 Fan on Jan 1, 2009 6:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

No

In order to sign another player we’d intend to use as a DH, we’d first have to trade Matsui. He can’t play the OF anymore; he’s had two knee surgeries in the last two years, one of which he’s still rehabbing from. But while he’s the most expendable (he’s still got a strong bat, but that can be gotten elsewhere too), he’s probably the least tradeable of our OFs because he can’t be traded to any NL team (unlike Swisher, who is coveted by the Braves and other teams, and Nady, who before this past July had only played for a few different NL teams), he’s owed $13 million this year (the final year of his contract, after which he may retire if he doesn’t rebound), and he’ll turn 35 in June.

Plus, why would we want Manny if he’s crawling to the Dodgers and the Giants, both with a clear need for power and a good offensive corner OF, with hat in hand? There’s a reason he’s still on the market, and why he won’t get the deal he wants (and why his desire and motivation will further be in question, since his unhappiness with his contract is why he quit playing for the Sox). He doesn’t fill a need for us any more than does his younger, faster, shortstop-playing namesake (who we’d clearly rather have for both offensive and defensive purposes), and he also comes with the huge question of whether he’d throw a tantrum or one of the personnel down the stairs or give up halfway through a game (let alone a season). We don’t need clubhouse antics, particularly on a team of classy professionals like the Yankees, and even more so with Girardi’s Yankees.

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Jan 1, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i would give cano,a.jackson,and anything else

by jv52yankees on Jan 1, 2009 7:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Hanley Ramirez? NO!!

Hes a fantastic player. If I was starting a ball club and I was allowed to pick one player to build a team around it would be him no question. But trading for him out of the question. The Yankees will trot an All-Star team out onto the field every night this season who needs one more? Lets slowly develop prospects. We have enough talent to win now. They just need to be a team.
Pour more and more money at Latin free agents. Scout voraciously. Draft the best talent available. Grow your own Hanley Ramirez

by sdhman11 on Jan 1, 2009 10:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Amen

Speaking of Latin free agents, check out my fanshot I posted a few days ago.

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Jan 1, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sorry

I didn’t even see it. We have to find a way to move the fan shots up the board…

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Jan 3, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, we do n/t

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Jan 3, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Cabrera and Cano

I would love to see the Yanks get Ramierz…he is amazing.

Instead of trading Joba away, do you think that if the Yankees included Melkey Cabrera in the deal with Cano and either Montero or Jackson or Hughes they could pull off the trade? I’m just not a big fan of getting rid of Joba. He is too good to give away and I think he has really grown as a pitcher and will do well as a starter.

Pride, Power, Pinstripes...Go Yankees!

by acman319 on Jan 1, 2009 11:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs