Ian Kennedy in P.R.
I just found out from my family in Puerto Rico that Ian Kennedy will be pitching in the Puerto Rico Baseball League (Indios de Mayaguez) this winter. I hope he can turn it around next year. Both him and Phill Hughes (who is struggling in the Arizona Fall League) are part of our future and I definitely back Cashman on not trading them last year. Our biggest problem this year was not the pitching but the inconsistent hitting.
frontpaged by jscape2000
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Hughes
Yes, he’s struggles, but the AFL is a hitter’s league. It’s elevation makes it a little like the pre-humidor Coors Field. Bubba Crosby once slugged there, and plenty of no thump guys like Yunel Escobar and Ben Zobrist have looked like sluggers.
So while 12 hits in 12 innings against minor leaguers isn’t great, it’s the walks that have killed Hughes (and killed IPK during the season). 8 BB and 2 HBP in 12 innings.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
by jscape2000 on Nov 3, 2008 5:55 AM EST 0 recs
Lack of command. Lack of movement
I pitched in the Arizona league, and while it is a hitters league, a quality pitcher can shut them down. The problem with Hughes is the same problem we saw while he was up… His fastball has no movement, and he has trouble commanding his off-speed pitches.
Both of these problems can be fixed to certain degrees. My concern is that they haven’t been fixed yet. I still don’t see Hughes as a frontline, or even a backline guy unless these problems are fixed. As for Kennedy, I still think he’s a better pitcher than Hughes—whatever that means at this point. His problem is between his ears, and that is something that may never be fixed.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on
Nov 4, 2008 11:41 AM EST
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A fastball with no natural movement
can’t be upgraded to a high quality fastbasll, especially when it comes in at 91 mph and the ball has no late tail to it as was advertised two years ago. The bet here is he is
Hughes-less, so to speak.
by TheTruth08 on Nov 5, 2008 9:42 PM EST 0 recs
Not completely true
Hughes may not have the 95-96 blistering heater that was originally touted by the Yankees PR department (obviously they were using the fast gun when doing their research), but to say his fastball has no natural movement and can’t be upgraded to a high quality fastball is simply not true.
Will he ever dominate with his heater? Probably not. But subtle mechanical changes can give him tailing and even sinking movement. However, as I say that I am concerned that it hasn’t already been done. Hughes seems like a smart, coachable kid.
Even if his fastball only gets nominal movement, the more important aspect, and frankly my greatest concern is his inability to effectively change speeds off of it and spotting it in, out, up and down, whenever and wherever he needs it. I haven’t seen that kind of command from him.
Hughes’s out-pitch seems to be his curve which is dazzling. Using his fastball effectively as mentioned above negates the need to throw it at Joba speeds. Unfortunately, and for whatever reason there seems to be a disconnect between what he is doing and what he needs to be doing.
If I were Dave Eiland, I handcuff Hughes to Mussina’s left wrist and pray that some of Mike’s savvy and know-how rub off on Hughes. With pedestrian stuff, he needs to learn the art of pitching, and as we all saw last year, Mussina has proven to be the Monet of the staff.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on
Nov 6, 2008 3:16 PM EST
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I'm not sure I buy the same Yankee hype
that had me seeing 15 wins from Hughes and Kennedy last season. Both washed out and frankly appear to be far less than spectacular.
So now you’re blaming the Yankees hype for your mis-evaluation on Hughes and Kennedy. Actually you can’t seem to make up your mind on Hughes. And no matter what the Yankees said about his velocity, he mainly threw in the low 90’s from the very first spring training start I saw and it never changes. As far as his “dazzling curve,” he hasn’t been able to throw that on any consistent basis either.
And what’s more frightening is that Kennedy’s fastball is worse than Hughes. If they can get Peavy for these two overrated pitchers, then do it!!!
by TheTruth08 on
Nov 6, 2008 3:50 PM EST
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No mis-evaluation
I’m not blaming the Yankees for anything. There job is to hype players they believe will make an impact—it’s been going on for a hundred years. No I can’t make up my mind on Hughes because I can’t understand why they aren’t making those subtle changes in his delivery and release.
I don’t know how long you’ve been around PA, but I was actually much higher on Kennedy and viewed him as a poor-man’s Greg Maddux. I still think he’s got the moxy to be successful, but his problems are in his head. This kid knows how to pitch. He just needs to do it.
I agree. A change of scenery might be the right move for these two—especially if we land someone we can count on to win 15.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on
Nov 6, 2008 5:23 PM EST
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Hughes CAN hit 95-96
he said himself he generally sits 92-94 and will occasionally hit 95+. that is what we’ve seen.
also, the fact that he’s been hurt in the midst of the summer each of the last two years means that he pitches more in cold weather, which has been known to slow pitchers’ velocity.
by Travis G on
Nov 6, 2008 6:18 PM EST
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Knowing what you know now...
Would you still hold on to Hughes, Kennedy, and Melky Cabrera (I believe that was the demand) for Johan Santana?
From the Red Sox standpoint, I’m glad we didn’t give up Lester, Masterson, Crisp, and Lowrie, but I’m wondering if the Yankees regret not pulling the trigger on that one.
by Schulz on Nov 6, 2008 2:30 PM EST 0 recs
The Twins would have settled
for either Hughes or Kennedy but the moron GM didn’t want to do it.
by TheTruth08 on
Nov 6, 2008 3:30 PM EST
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nope
it was either Hughes, Kennedy and prospects, OR Kennedy, Wang and prospects.
by Travis G on
Nov 6, 2008 6:20 PM EST
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You're 100% wrong about what the Twins would've accepted for Santana-NY Post Feb 12
HANK SEES POWER, POTENTIAL AND PROMISE IN NEW-LOOK YANKS
MEET THE NEW BOSS: Hank Steinbrenner, in his office that overlooks Tampa’s Legends Field, feels the Mets made a good trade to snag All-Star Johan Santana, but is comfortable with his new-look team, as is.
February 12, 2008 — TAMPA – Hank Steinbrenner tells it like it is and if the young pitching comes around he envisions what could be a Decade of Dominance for the YankeesNew York Yankees .
“This year, I think we have as much a chance to win it all as the other top three or four teams in the American League,” a relaxed Steinbrenner told The Post yesterday on the eve of spring training as he sat in his office overlooking Legends Field. "I think we are all kind of together right now.
"I can honestly tell you I believe in my gut, and usually my first instinct is right, that we got a chance to be the best team in baseball, period, over the next several years and it could even be the next 10 years.
“That doesn’t mean you win it every year, but we are going to have a tremendous chance to win it any particular year, barring bad injuries, for the next 10 years,” said the new Boss. “We’re going to be that tough. That’s what we’re building towards.”
MORE: Kernan’s Blog
The Yankees believe in their young pitching so much that they opted not to trade for Johan SantanaJohan Santana , even though at the end, when the MetsNew York Mets acquired the ace, the Twins came back to Yankees and Phil Hughes was not included in that package.
“There’s been a lot of pressure put on Phil Hughes, but the fact is that Hughes was not in the deal at the end, none of the three [Joba Chamberlain, Hughes or Ian Kennedy] were in the deal,” Steinbrenner said. “There was a possibility we could have made the trade without them. Minnesota called us with some other possibilities.”
by TheTruth08 on
Nov 6, 2008 6:50 PM EST
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Hank is a moron
and clearly doesn’t have any idea what he’s talking about regarding most issues. This is the same Hank who now fumes over not trading for Santana when he says in this article that he favored keeping the young arms.
Cashman himself said in an interview back in March on WFAN that Hughes/Kennedy or Wang/Kennedy had to be included in any deal in return for Santana.
I’m inclined to believe Cashman because Hank has a well-earned reputation of being the big mouth who spews a lot of ridiculous shit and doesn’t call the shots.
by anaconda on
Nov 6, 2008 8:37 PM EST
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Knowing what I know ...
I wouldn’t have voted for George Bush … Hows that?
Looking back and playing the “what if” game is futile, and leaves one with cold sweats. It also leads to drinking and pill dependency—none of which are very good. However, for the sake of argument, and the fact that it’s 9:18am and I haven’t yet had my morning drink, I’ll play. I would have sat on Hughes, Kennedy and Cabrera. I would not have parted with them for Santana. Here’s why … I believed Melky was about to have a breakout season. I was enamored with Hughes and his near no-no, and I absolutely loved the way Kennedy went about the game. Unfortunately though, no one could have foreseen that all three would succumb to an invasion of the body snatchers type of thing and blow huge for the season.
Now I’m sweating … Are you happy now. Where are my pills, dammit.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on
Nov 7, 2008 9:21 AM EST
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A moron owner and a moron GM
You don’t think Hughes, Melky and other prospects couldn’t have landed Santana after the garbage the Mets gave up for him?
by TheTruth08 on Nov 6, 2008 10:18 PM EST 0 recs
Truth be told
I wouldn’t have made the deal either and said so many times within these walls. And I still wouldn’t because I think Hughes is going to be fine.
Never give up on young talents like that. We Yankee fans should have learned that this past season watching other young arms struggle then blossom from around the league such as Lester, Volquez, Matt Garza, Sonnanstein, Ervin Santana, Mike Pelfry, etc, etc.
The deal wasn’t made because of the numbers expected out of them in 2008. It wasn’t made because of the long term expectations from the young arms – most notably Hughes.
Keep in mind that Theo Epstein also declined to make the deal for Santana for the same reason Cashman did. Theo didn’t want to give up Buchholz or Lester.
by anaconda on
Nov 7, 2008 12:00 AM EST
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Hughes does not belong in the same breath
as Volquez, Lester, Garza, and Ervin Santana. His stuff is not in their league. Keep on wearing your Yankee blinders with Hughes.
by TheTruth08 on Nov 7, 2008 1:46 AM EST 0 recs
Whatever you say....
but there’s a reason why Hughes was the best prospect in baseball just a couple of years ago. It wasn’t simply because Cashman liked him.
It took a few years before things started clicking for Lester, Garza, Santana, and Volquez. He’s only 22 years old and has less experience than all of those guys.
But you go ahead and bury him now.
by anaconda on
Nov 7, 2008 2:09 AM EST
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He's starting to ...
remind me of Andy Roth?
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on
Nov 7, 2008 9:22 AM EST
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And Homer Bailey was ranked the second best pitching prospect behind Hughes
and he makes Hughes look like Cy Young. The so-called scouts who rated these guys didn’t know what they were looking at and basically they may just have been the best pitchers among a bad crop of prospects.
by TheTruth08 on
Nov 7, 2008 12:22 PM EST
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i'm guessing
you’re not a ‘glass is half-full’ kind of guy.
by Travis G on
Nov 7, 2008 1:11 PM EST
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I'm a "realist type of guy"
who knows pitching talent when he sees it. And Hughes is not a major talent and Kennedy looks like a minor league star. There are sooooooooooo many young pitchers I’d rather have than these two for the long run.
by TheTruth08 on
Nov 7, 2008 2:42 PM EST
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Your comment ...
You are wrong about both of these guys. Hughes is a major talent—whether he realizes that talent or falls by the way of Sam MacDowell, Dwight Gooden and a host of other enigmas is yet to be seen. As for Kennedy, he knows how to pitch and can be very successful if he gets his head on straight.
You are beginning to remind me of a sportswriter, the kind who is bitter and angry because he never made varsity, and always was picked last.
Writing these two young guys off because “you know pitching talent when you see it” and they don’t have it, and basing it while they are still in their infancy is irresponsible and extremely shortsighted. You really are sounding to me and I suspect others as a very small person, with very little to say.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on
Nov 7, 2008 3:59 PM EST
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Hughes and Gooden mentioned in the same breath?
You’ve got to be kidding me? Gooden eventually lost it because of cocaine and alcohol. Gooden threw in the mid to high 90’s with one of the nastiest 12-6 curves at the age of 19 and Hughes throws a straight 91 with an inconsistent curve. Hughes doesn’t have one plus pitch at this point and you call him a major talent. If he’s a major talent what does that make Lincecum, Volquez, Shields, Lester, Beckett, Webb, Peavy, and on and on and on. Joba is a major talent, not Hughes.
by TheTruth08 on Nov 8, 2008 12:04 AM EST 0 recs
your statement that
you ‘know pitching when you see it’ seems to be solely based on velocity. ever heard of guys named Farnsworth or Maddux?
by Travis G on
Nov 8, 2008 11:55 AM EST
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Hughes and Gooden in the same breath ...
If you actually read my post, you’d have realized I put Gooden in a class with Sam MacDowell—a guy you probably never heard of (even though you know pitching talent). Gooden had a thunderbolt for an arm, and should have been a 250+ game winner with multiple Cy Young’s. He was an enigma pure and simple.
Have an adult read you what I wrote. I never suggested Hughes was in the same class as Gooden. But I did say he was a major talent. … And unlike you, I actually do know pitching talent when I see it. What I said was his script has yet to be written, and he could end up like Gooden—an enigma.
Don’t just spout crap to hear yourself talk. As Mark Twain once said, “Better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you’re an idiot than open it and remove all doubt.”
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on
Nov 13, 2008 12:59 PM EST
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I never said talent was based solely on velocity.
James Shields throws low 90’s but has excellent movement and control and four above average pitches. Webb and Peavy aren’t power pitches either. But keep on believing Hughes and Kennedy are major talents. I’ll take a guy like Jerermy Guthrie over those two in a split second.
by TheTruth08 on Nov 8, 2008 2:09 PM EST 0 recs
funny you bring up Guthrie
a pitcher that didn’t do ANYTHING until 28. Hughes and Kennedy have shown more in their early 20s than Guthrie ever did (who didn’t break the majors until 25).
also funny that Cleveland gave up on Guthrie in ‘06, traded him to Baltimore and now he’s good. a lot we can learn from him.
by Travis G on
Nov 9, 2008 11:38 AM EST
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Thanks, Travis.
Guys like “TheTruth” crack me up. You are dead on with Guthrie, and your assessment of “TheTruth”. He sounds like an 8 year old who’s enamored with how fast someone throws.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on
Nov 13, 2008 1:01 PM EST
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I love Kennedy.
IDK about you guys, but I’d love to see this rotation in 2010:
CC
Wang
Joba
Hughes
Kennedy
by schmosterballs92 on Nov 8, 2008 2:56 PM EST 0 recs
Not likely ...
I wouldn’t give Hughes or Kennedy a spot in the rotation unless they flat out earn it in Spring Training.
I think we need to consider each of them as well as some other good arms that we saw last season.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on
Nov 13, 2008 1:02 PM EST
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