Fallback if we cannot get CC

by jpoppejr on Nov 26, 2008 1:35 AM EST Comment 13 comments

We need CC. No question. But how long can we wait? I would guess that the Yankees receive a call before any significant free agent signs, so I do not think there is a big risk of the Yankees missing out on an opportunity to get a top free agent.

However, if CC does not want to come and money is not the driving force, then the Yankees need a backup plan. And since I have a couple of minutes to waste here are my two cents:

Go after (1) Oliver Perez (we need a lefty; tons of talent and proven he can pitch well enough in NY; lots of upside) and (2) AJ Burnett (again, lots of upside and pitches well against the Soxs; seems to have a lot of fire; maybe just needs a challenge; although reminds me a little of Weaver). Get both pitchers for $15 million per year each. I would rather Lowe then Burnett, but he wants 5 years - much too long.

Rotation of: Wang, Perez, Chamberlin, Burnett and Hughes is competitive and potentially great. I think it is time for Pettitte to move on or retire. He has pitched mediocre during his second tour. We could get the same numbers from a Kennedy, Aceves or Rasner mix and match.

Now, go get Tex for $23 million per year.

And our lineup would look like:

LF - Damon (L) , SS- Jeter (R), 1B - Tex (S), 3B - A-Rod (R), DH - Matsui (L), 2B - Cano (L), Posada - C (S), Nady - RF (R), CF - Swisher (S)

Ouch! Not much speed, but give me an easy out? Very tough.

Total free agent cost: $53 million per year. The team still reduces payroll from last year.

Thoughts?

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A few things

1.) Oliver Perez pitches mediocre against NL opponents, and Pettitte pitched fantastically in 2007, yet you’d prefer a long-term, high-dollar contract for the former rather than a $12-15 million one-year contract for the proven latter?

2.) Burnett also wants a five-year contract. He is younger than Lowe, which is probably what you meant, but five years is still too many for the injury-prone Burnett.

3.) Hughes is not going to be a starter for an entire season, though the way he has been pitching lately, he will likely get some starts since Chamberlain also cannot go 200 innings and will likely end the season in the pen, as he did this season. Hughes will likely start in Scranton, but if he keeps pitching lights-out like he has in the winter league, and if there is an injury in one of our starters, expect him to be called up.

4.) We no longer have Rasner. He was “sold” to a Japanese team. (Sports really is slavery, isn’t it? Poor millionaires.)

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Nov 26, 2008 2:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Definitely in favor of going after Tex.

He’d make a good fit.

As for pitchers, I’m not so sure about Perez, but I think if there’s a fallback it’ll probably Burnett and Lowe. I don’t really like the idea of adding so much age to the rotation, but that’s what will happen.

To the tune of the classic children's song "This Old Man" (the part with nick nack patty whack)

Big Snack, Silverback, take the Dawg Pound's Bone, the Black and Gold sent the Brownies crying home.

by HighSchoolSteeler on Nov 26, 2008 10:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Umm...

Burnett and Lowe aren’t fallbacks. They’re part of Plan A.

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Nov 27, 2008 1:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Tex is a very good player and a good fit

But, a rotation of Wang, Perez, Chamberlin, Burnett and Hughes is not competitive, nor is it potentially great. Where are you going to get your innings from? Wang, if healthy, will throw 200 innings. Joba and Hughes will have inning caps. Perez and Burnett aren’t locks for 200 innings. The latter has reached 200 innings three times (twice in contract years),a nd Perez has only thrown 180+ twice (194 and 196). Also, Hughes, Joba, and Burnett are health risks. While Wang is a solid #2, Perez isn’t that good.

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by Jeter Wears Perfume on Nov 26, 2008 2:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

it would truly suck

to miss out on CC. fallback should NOT be Burnett and Lowe, it should be Tex and/or Manny.

Lowe and Burnett are merely nice pitchers. Tex and Manny are elite hitters. i’d MUCH rather add an elite hitter than a nice pitcher. simple as that.

by Travis G on Nov 28, 2008 12:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

We need pitching more than offense, and we don't need Manny

Thank God it doesn’t look like the Yanks are interested in Manny. We already have enough high-priced drama with A-Rod. But we need a good 3B. We don’t need a LF, even a great hitter like Manny, if he’ll disrupt the clubhouse further and make the back pages like the Bronx Zoo days.

We don’t need more offense. Yeah, it would be the icing on the cake to get Tex, but we need more starters. We simply need arms, let alone good ones. We literally have holes in the rotation we cannot fill entirely from within. So we need to either acquire AT LEAST one FA or trade for one. Two would be preferable.

So that is why pitching is our greatest need. Everyone knows that. It’s mystifying you disagree.

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Nov 28, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

By the way...

We need to acquire at least one FA or trade for a pitcher ON TOP OF re-signing Pettitte, which isn’t guaranteed but assumed. If we get Pettitte and another pitcher, we’ll still have to fill the 5th starter slot from within, and we’ll have to plug Hughes or Aceves or a trade-deadline deal or late-season FA acquisition into Joba’s slot when his innings cap approaches. Joba is supposed to be our 5th starter. Even though he’s better than that and is good enough to be #2 or #3 and could someday be a #1, the idea behind making him the 5th starter is to limit his innings and stretch his usefulness over more of the season. But if we have to plug him in between Wang and Pettitte, for example, we’ll have to use Hughes or Aceves or whoever sooner. So, again, we need more pitchers just to get by, let alone to really have a stellar rotation.

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Nov 28, 2008 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

exactly senor

we need arms bad, starters are a must. Tex would be great but not if he costs us the chance to land a big-time arm with his money. swisher is fine at first for a couple years.
First baseman don’t win u championships, starting pitchers do.

I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby

by kdog on Nov 30, 2008 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

right

like all those championships Johan Santana and CC Sabathia have won. bear in mind, i’m a huge proponent of signing CC, but Tex/Manny are just more valuable than Lowe/Sheets. And even in his career year, Burnett is merely equal to a good Manny year.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pfk_WuYpfdux2FC_hs6ROEQ&gid=1

http://www.detroittigertales.com/2008/09/offense-as-important-as-pitching-for.html

never mind that Sheets/Burnett are extremely injury prone.

by Travis G on Dec 1, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

awful examples

Manny was so bad for Boston that they only won 2 titles. the Bronx Zoo days were so terrible the Yanks won only 4 pennants and 2 titles. the A’s of the early 70s won 3 straight titles. teams win with ‘bad seeds’ all the time. a ‘unified-clubhouse-equals-winning’ is a complete myth. i cant believe people still haven’t gotten past it.

actually, we DO need more offense (unless you’re willing to settle for another average year again). the Yanks were 7th in the AL. they haven’t scored fewer runs since the strike-shortened year of 1995. every regular player is on the wrong side of 30 save for Swisher and Cano. and you just assume they’ll be ok?

if you read what i wrote, i clearly emphasized going all-out for Sabathia. if we cant, i wouldn’t be totally averse to a 3-year deal for Burnett, Lowe and/or Sheets, but like i said, i would PREFER an elite hitter to those merely good (and 2/3 injury prone) pitchers.

by Travis G on Dec 1, 2008 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

OK....

So if we land Sabathia, then our rotation is Sabathia/Wang/Chamberlain (the latter of whom can’t pitch a whole season and will have to be replaced partway through the season). Then if we sign Pettitte, it’s Sabathia/Wang/Pettitte/Chamberlain. What do we do for the 5th slot? Hughes for part of the season? Then we’ll have two slots to replace during the summer, Hughes’ slot earlier than Chamberlain’s. Do we use Aceves and then someone else (Giese or Coke, presumably) at the first sign of trouble from him? Do we go after Looper or some other lower-tier FA?

Besides, it’s unlikely we go after Sabathia and a high-priced, multi-year offensive player.

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Dec 1, 2008 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Are we screwed?

Reading these comments, I am concerned that the Yankees are screwed if they do not get CC. Falling back on more offense will be a repeat of the 80s. The Yanks cannot do that.

I’m a little surprised with the negative view of Hughes. I understand he has been injury prone but I think we need him as a #4 or #5 from day one.

As for Chamberlin, I like the idea posted of him as a #5, but I am really torn with him. We need a replacement for Mo within a year or so. Chamberlin would be great, but would he be underutilized in this role? Granted Mo has been the Yanks MVP (next to O’Neil) during the championship run, so a lock as closer is no small thing. I keep going back and forth. I even went down the road of thinking about getting K-Rod and using him as a setup man for 1 year and as insurance. Since K-Rod’s price is coming down drastically maybe the Yanks add a year to “compensate” for the setup role during the first year.

So, I ramble, but this is my concern – where do the Yanks go without CC? Are they forced to resign Pettitte? Destined to get mediocre pitchers? Or do we need to be patient for another year for better pitching options?

Right now we have: Wang and that is it. Two mediocre FA pitchers just do not cut it. I can see lots of problems for the Yanks for the next couple of years if they do not land CC.

by jpoppejr on Dec 3, 2008 12:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs