K-Rod? Question
by BenSheridan on Oct 3, 2008 6:55 PM EDT
22 comments
It's no secret now that K-Rod may potentially be the greatest closer of all time. When all is said and done, Rodriguez in only 4 years in the primary closing role has put up more saves than the Yankees beloved Mariano Rivera in his best for years. (194-191)
That being said, its also no secret that Mariano's tender age of 39 comes with baggage and we've seen it of late with the news that he will be receiving shoulder surgery. As I'm sure you have guessed, and believe me, I'm ready for the *ss-chewing I probably deserve, my question is this: If Mariano is getting older and his arm weaker, doesn't it make sense in this year to go after the closer who will probably become the best of all time, in Francisco Rodriguez?
Rodriguez, who has openly stated his price of at least 5 years and "Mariano Money", seems like a good choice to take over the 9th in the new ballpark. If the Yankees, who seem to be opening the door for Damaso Marte, are planning on letting Joba start in the rotation they will need a set-up man. Now don't get me wrong, nothing gives me good bumps like Mariano running in to Enter Sandman in the 9th, but would I be wrong to say that having Sandman in the 8th and K-Rod in the 9th could be more dominant than Joba-Mo in 2007?
I know we need offense as Bobby Abreu, a .303 hitting in his three year stint with the Yankees, put up his New York condo for sale in April; and Jason Giambi, the slugger of a shady 209 home runs look to possibly leave the Bombers this offseason. But Mark Texiera, among others has the potential to provide that in 2009.
It sounds crazy and I'm openly admitting its long shot chances, but when you think about it, is it so crazy? K-Rod and A-Rod on the same team. Think about it.
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There's more than just save totals to closers.
Joe Borowski put up 45 and Todd Jones put up 38 in 2007. Enough said.
"Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat." - Theodore Roosevelt
by Daniel52 on Oct 3, 2008 9:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
K-rocked..
Save a post season game in a big spot then we’ll talk. In 2002 he was a set-up man to Percieval,less pressure. The Angels, for all their success against the Yanks,haven’t won anything since. Mariano money? show me some Mariano guts first.
by celerino73 on Oct 4, 2008 11:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Have you lost your mind?
“I’m sure you have guessed, and believe me, I’m ready for the *ss-chewing I probably deserve”
Exactly what you’re in for.
First off Mariano is having surgery to remove calcification’s in his shoulder. This surgery has never and will never effect a pitchers arm. The only thing it will do is make Mo’s arm feel better and it won’t be cranky anymore. The only way this surgery will effect Mariano is if his doctor is Dr. Kevorkian.
Secondly, to presume that K-rod will be the greatest closer of all time is down right ridiculous. The dude has been in the league for only 7 years and has compiled a total of 3 saves in the post season. Rivera had 4 WS championships and 24 saves by his 7th season.
On top of that, after Thigpen saved 57 games in 1990 he went on to save a total of 53 games for the rest of his career. In 2004, Rivera saved 53 games that season and we all know what happened that year in the playoffs. Again with Eric Gange, after his 03 season with 55 saves he managed to pull another 45 saves the following season but soon after that needed Tommy John Surgery and has been in a pitching coma ever since. All I’m trying to say is you don’t know what’s going to happen to Franky this post season or next season. He will be in a better position if he stays with the Angels. I don’t think the Angels will pay him the money he is demanding but some stupid team will. And when they over use him like the Angels did this season and he injures himself it will be their fault. He very well may be a great closer but I’m betting that he folds.
K-rod is in his own world right now. He is ludacris to even ask for Mariano Money. Mariano earned that money and it took him 5 World Series appearances to even get over 10 million.
The difference is Mo has done it already, K-Rod has a LONG way to go to even be compared with Mariano. Mariano Rivera is legendary.
by Fluke on Oct 4, 2008 4:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
agree to all except
that K-rod is nuts for asking that money, I for one, can definately see the Mets throwing crazy money at him.
by RollingWave on Oct 6, 2008 5:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it necessary to point out that spending
$15,000,000 per season for a setup man is ridiculous?
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin
by garp on Oct 4, 2008 4:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Any slightly-above lague average closer
could get as many saves, if they had as many chances.
Take Papelbon, for example. He would almost definately get as many saves (if not more) than K-Rod if he had as many chances. Hell, some teams don’t even have 62 wins. Thats not even counting the number of save situations.
The Angels offense is at a level where they are good enough to beat some teams, but not good enough to pull away. Other teams whose offense is either too good or too bad, their closer wouldn’t have as many chances.
Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!
by BoSox415 on Oct 4, 2008 9:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
what the hell r u smoking, k rod has an era of 2.24, high for a closer
mo is the man nobody can be better than him
by yankees on Oct 4, 2008 11:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and Papelbons is only a tenth higher at 2.34
and he had 2 less blown saves than K-Rod.
Clutch? K-Rod has struggled in the playoffs. Look at game 2 last year, wti the Manny walk-off. And look at him this year, with the JD Drew game-winner. OF course, both of those guys are great hitters, and Drew would probably be a big MVP candidate if he stayed healthy. But if you need to be the best, you have to beat the best.
Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!
by BoSox415 on Oct 5, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Question
K-Rod just got the save record. Rivera’s been sucking lately and we dont need that. If the yanks wanna win, they get K-Rod, all you guys no hell be so much better your just too big of dumb ass believers that Rivera will always be the same greater pitcher. He wont be and hasnt been for a while. And as much as i love the guy, Jeters done too. Get Hanley Rameriz. And Damon, Abreu, Giambi, Matsui, Cano, and Posada are done too. The yanks needa stop putting their pride in the way of what actually matters and thats winning.
No more Yankee Stadium, no matter what they call the new one.
by USCnumber1 on Oct 6, 2008 1:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's an absurd amount of nonsense in one post
Rivera has been sucking lately?
You could make a strong argument that Mo just had his most dominating season of his career and did so with a somewhat bum shoulder that he’s having scoped this week.
And K-Rod owning the save record is a great feat – but Bobby Thigpen once had 57 saves and Joe Borowski once had 48 saves. So what does that save total really mean?
Sure, it’s an impressive record – but they were also lucky enough to be in a position to get so many opportunities.
K-Rod is a great closer – no question. But so is the all-time saves leader, Trevor Hoffman. And neither of those guys are on the same planet as Mo. He has dominated this game like no closer in history ever has.
That is no small feat.
On your other point, this is not XBOX or fantasy baseball. You cannot simply drop anyone on the roster you want because they’ve signed these pieces of paper called contracts that prohibits them from being dropped like a sack of potatoes.
Hey, I’d like to drop Giambi and Cano and get Pujols and Chase Utley too – but the real world doesn’t work that way.
by anaconda on Oct 6, 2008 3:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That had better be
satire.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
by jscape2000 on Oct 6, 2008 4:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
USCnumber1
You must be kidding?!
Rivera has been sucking lately? Have you even been watching baseball this season?!
Jeter and Cano are done? Where are you getting this from?
How about post some information that backs up what your saying.
You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. Stop making ridiculous posts like this because it is completely FALSE.
by Fluke on Oct 6, 2008 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's actually really funny...
…if it IS a joke.
If not, refer to anaconda’s post at the top of the of the thread…
mmkay?
The Jayfiss Report ...one fan's rants
by NumberSeven on Oct 6, 2008 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO to K-Rod...
…for all the reasons stated above.
My feeling is that he will be in New York though- as a Met. Minaya will throw a bunch of money at him. As soon as it was announced that Wagner is down for next year too- I immediately thought K-Rod to the Mets. I would surprised if it doesn’t happen.
The Jayfiss Report ...one fan's rants
by NumberSeven on Oct 6, 2008 10:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
NumberSeven
I can definitely see K-Rod ending up on the Mets, where his career will go in the toilet…
by Fluke on Oct 6, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HAHA
Never wish a person death. Wishing a reliever to go to the Mets is like wishing a guy was dead, or a Chigago Bear QB.
No more Yankee Stadium, no matter what they call the new one.
by USCnumber1 on Oct 7, 2008 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not kidding
Jeters not the best, Cano sucks because he cant hit all 162 and Mo is not as good as K-Rod because Mo is old and hurt and K-Rod is young and has the save record.
I know you can’t drop players randomly, you trade them. We HAVE to some of those guys before they lose all trade value and get paid $20million a year to hit .250
No more Yankee Stadium, no matter what they call the new one.
by USCnumber1 on Oct 7, 2008 12:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
OK then
I was considering not even responding to this nonsense about the save record, but I pretty much have to because of how ridiculous your claim is.
Out of all closers in 2008, Mariano had the best ERA and best WHIP, with K-Rod coming in 5th in ERA behind such “greatest closers of all time” like Joakim Soria, and an astounding 15th in WHIP, behind such All-Stars as Kevin Gregg. But even if you wanted to jump on and cling to saves, as if the stat is truly meaningful, then fine. Let’s talk saves.
The true measure of a closer isn’t how many saves he gets. That is irrelevant, because a closer doesn’t control how many save OPPORTUNITIES he gets. The team does. So, the true measure of a great closer is actually their percentage of converted saves. After all, getting 62 saves looks good, but those 7 BLOWN saves he has is tied for 3rd worst in MLB. He could have actually had 69 saves this year, thanks to the Angels winning nearly all their games by 3 or less runs.
This year, Brad Lidge was the MLB’s best closer, by converting 41 of 41 saves. You can’t get any better than 100 percent. Your “old, hurt” Rivera was second best, converting 39 of 40 saves, for a 97.5 percent rate. K-Rod was GOOD this year, converting 62 of 69 for a rate of 89.8 percent. Good, but not even the best in the league. Hell, Joakim Soria had a better save percentage (93 percent).
So, I doubt this will change your mind at all, but at least it will clear up to everyone else here why Mo, and not K-Rod, was and is the greatest closer of our generation, even if he doesn’t hold some meaningless single season record of a stat that’s hardly meaningful in the first place.
by DeathSquire36 on Oct 7, 2008 4:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The bests pullpens
are young, cheap, and homegrown.
With the exception of Mariano Rivera, our bullpen meets those criteria. If you’re measuring raw stats and high-pressure performances, then I believe Rivera has to be at least one of the top three relief pitchers who’s ever played the game. Earlier this year he set a record for lowest career ERA in 1,000+ innings for a player who began his career after 1900 – that’s just unfathomable in this day and age of offense.
This year, Rivera had one of his highest K/9 rates and lowest BB/9 rates – he is far from done.
K-Rod, on the other had, has posted his lowest career K/9 rate and highest BB/9 rate – yet he had lots of magical “saves”.
By every statistical measure other than saves, K-Rod was not even one of the top five reliever in baseball in 2008. I suspect that either the Mets or the Tigers will pay him what he wants this offseason, but the buyer should beware…..
by 3460kuri on Oct 7, 2008 9:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dude ...
Put down the bong and find yourself a 12 step program. Moving the greatest closer of all-time to a setup role might make sense in your drug induced haze where Janice is planting daisies and Jimi is playing some wicked guitar, but in the real world K-rod can’t hold Mo’s jock. Sure he’s a great closer, but he doesn’t have anywhere near the track record or resume of Mo.
Seriously, put the bong down, now and call some of your friends to come over and do an intervention on your behalf. It wouldn’t hurt to put on a Rivera jersey, face north and chant “I’m sorry, Mo” fifty times while waiting for your buddies to show up.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on Oct 7, 2008 4:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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