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Euphoria



Does it get any better than this? If we go 7-3, while the Red Sox go 5-4...

It doesn't matter. We're making them sweat. So long as we keep winning all of New England will have one foot on the window sill for the rest of September.

I agree with cbeck's point about lining up for the playoffs before aiming for the division.
Then again, Jeter's looked better since the day I ran a post suggesting he was hurt. If Matsui's swing comes around then I'd have to think hard before sitting them for a couple games. But all the regulars should have two of the next ten games off- just not all at once Torre.

Is there any way to get WB swinging the bat well again?

How do we want the pitching lined up? How do we expect Torre to line it up?

I think Mussina has 'won' himself a postseason start with his performance this weekend. I'd pitch Andy in game one (home or road), but I suspect Torre might go with Wang then Pettitte in deference to the righty-lefty thing.
Depending which series we end up in, you might hear me advocating for a three man rotation in the first round (Pettitte-Wang-Clemens).

But first, another hurdle: those same suddenly deadly Blue Jays.
Halladay-Wang
Marcum-IPK
McGowan-Clemens
Burnett-Hughes
Each of those matchups seems pretty even. Our pitchers will have to stay sharp for us to keep winning.

And we have to keep winning.

We'll know soon enough.

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Re: Euphoria
It's not often I celebrate a Yankee victory with an old Jackson Browne performance.

In fact, this is a first.

That song always reminds me of Forrest Gump.

by anaconda on Sep 20, 2007 12:35 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Euphoria
Is it in Forrest Gump? or is it just the running thing? I was listening to Jackson Browne today while driving between jobs, so it's what was in my head as I read the game recaps.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Sep 20, 2007 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Euphoria
Yeah, that song is played when Forrest Gump goes on his cross-country run.

That movie had one of the best soundtracks of all time.  

by anaconda on Sep 20, 2007 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Odd to associate Jackson Browne
with a celebration at all.  The guy made some seriously depressing music (though I like some of it).  First wife committed suicide. Accused of beating up then-girlfriend Darryl Hannah.  Whoopeee!
"God, I just love baseball." - Robert Redford in The Natural

by uflyibuy on Sep 20, 2007 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Odd to associate Jackson Browne
Everybody's a critic! I just like the song; lyrics are so important and he's very creative with his imagery and varying what he's saying. He did write some real downers.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Sep 20, 2007 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You might have tried
'Stay' to buck up the Sox. Maybe it would keep them off the ledge?
The blogger formerly known as 'chris'

by LateInningRelief on Sep 20, 2007 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Nah, Van Halen
I'll save that for if we get into first place.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Sep 20, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Euphoria
As far the the rotation is concerned, I think there is little question that the rotation is probably going to be Wang, Pettitte, Clemens, and Moose in the ALDS -- in that order.

That way, Clemens pitches at home and Pettitte would pitch Game 5.

That's assuming the Yanks are the WC and have to play on the road to start the series.

by anaconda on Sep 20, 2007 12:55 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Euphoria
Not sure about Wang starting on the road. The ERA disparity is big enough between his home and road starts they may push him back to Game 3.

by PsiFighter37 on Sep 20, 2007 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Euphoria
I don't disagree with that.  There is a good-sized disparity between his road and home ERA.

However, I think Torre wants to live or die with Wang and Pettitte both pitching twice if the series goes 5 games.

If they make it that far, the ALCS rotation may be set up differently.

by anaconda on Sep 20, 2007 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Euphoria
   This weekend will prove to be for the division. We took two of three from Toronto last week losing one with a walk off served up by Chris Britton. We need our starters to continue going deep into games to relax our bullpen.
   Toronto should help us considering they don't work too many walks and our pitchers for the most part pitch for contact. K's are a plus.
   Toronto's pitching staff is pitching well, like they have been all season. Halladay and Burnett own us, so those seem to me, like the last tests for our Yanks. They will not face any better starters from here unitl the postseason so I expect Joe to trot out our best and watch them try very hard.
   We're lucky to be playing a tough series like this at home and be riding high. Unlike our woeful counterparts who had to go on the road and were falling flat on thier faces.
   That was Russ Adams 2nd hr of the year. Off Paps, he's gotta be smiling still. The Yanks (attempting to keep from smiling) have played well enough to be in this position with only 10 games to go, this is ridiculous.
   Now here's a qeustion. If the Yanks pull this division from underneath the Sox, which will be a bigger choke, 04' or 07'? Two different parts of the season but 14.5 is 14.5.
It is HIGH! It is FAR! It is! GOOONNEEE!!!

by yankeesRfirst on Sep 20, 2007 12:56 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Gage reflex in New England
If they blow this, it's big cause they're dying so late.  Seems like they'll have a hard time rallying for the playoffs.  Gagne, Oki, Paps, DiceK et al are really struggling.  Hard to see how they get confidence back in them in 10 games.  One yes but not the whole staff.
The Opera ain't over til the fat lady sings

by Cbeck3 on Sep 20, 2007 1:26 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

it's gag isn't it. I really cannot spell
The Opera ain't over til the fat lady sings

by Cbeck3 on Sep 20, 2007 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I gotta post this comment i left on soxandpin.

Wow, well if the Yanks take the division this will continue a trend the Red Sox team and fanbase has thrived in for years. The lovable losers who always finish just shy of greatness.

Your nation relished and despised the curse of the Bambino. And then October 2004, they achieved biggest come back in sports history, against none other than the evil empire. Boom! All of the sudden all the angst and heartache vanished. 86 yrs. of futility was lifted 9th inning after 9th inning comebacks. The Sox finished they're magical comeback with a sweep of the overmatched St. Louis Cardinals.

It was to be a new chapter. A chapter without much pain and suffering. Where children would grow up with the best baseball team in the nation for years. Maybe even decades.

Then the following year. 2005 agaisnt the White Sox. Bases loaded with Red Sox and nobody out, in Fenway no less. The mood was set, the Sox were about to bust open the score. With once Yankee hurler El Duque on the mound. He removed his team from the inning unscathed. This was to be a turning point, that only few who pay close attention are aware of. The Red Sox were humbled by an up and coming pitching staff (or so they seemed up and coming). And were ousted by eventual WS Champions.

The following season. The Yankees walk into Fenway, in late August with a 1.5 game lead. For what was a pivotl 5 game set in 4 days. By the end of the weekend Boston was left in ruins. The magic of 2004 gone, a forethought. It was the Boston Massacre. The Yanks went on to take 6.5 game lead and cruised to a division title.

Now present day Boston. A season that blossomed with such promise. A team with the best pitchers in the league. Devestating hitters in Manny and Ortiz. Papelbon wanting to be the nail in the coffin. The Sox started out of the gates firing on all cylinders.

Meanwhile, just a few states south of them, the Evil Empire was crippled by early season injuries and lack of enthusiasm. Experts claimed them dead in the water by late May. But fans knew better than that, both Yanks and Sox fans. Even the players knew it wasn't over.

Just months later with 10 games left the Sox are in danger of out doing none other than themselves. Will this curse with no name continue to haunt the Sox or will they deny any superstitions and fend off those Yanks? If history is any indicator, the Sox should win it. But these are Red Sox I'm talking about.

Don't worry Red Sox fan you didn't lose the division yet. The ball is still in your court. And even if you lose the division, the playoffs are a brand new season. Papelbon will be entering the 8th at the first sign of trouble, not with the bases juiced and 1 out. Beckett will most likely be on, Ortiz has proven himself time and time again. And with a healthy Ramirez and Youk, they just might right this ship. Might being the key word. See you at the finish line.

It is HIGH! It is FAR! It is! GOOONNEEE!!!

by yankeesRfirst on Sep 20, 2007 2:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That
was one of my best posts in a long time. lol. Kinda sums up RSN.
It is HIGH! It is FAR! It is! GOOONNEEE!!!

by yankeesRfirst on Sep 20, 2007 2:03 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Moe
needs a few days off. I wish he closed with Joba...

by John Amato on Sep 20, 2007 2:23 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

this past week
has made me almost forget that im a die-hard giants and notre dame football fan.

almost.

by Clutch like Leyritz on Sep 20, 2007 6:23 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: this past week
I couldn't agree with you more. But you know come Sat and Sun these sad excuses for football teams are gunna show their ugly heads. Personally I'm a Rutgers fan (graduated 2004) but I can feel you pain on the Giant front. There are so many bad things on this team and none start with the name Eli.
It is HIGH! It is FAR! It is! GOOONNEEE!!!

by yankeesRfirst on Sep 20, 2007 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Euphoria
All summer we watched the Sox running away with the division and the Mariners running away with the wild card.  We were struggling but said they both had to collapse at some point.  The fact that they waited til the end, when we played our best ball, makes it that much nicer.  
"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Sep 20, 2007 7:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It was us in the rear view that made them collapse
You need pressure to chock.

Take it easy, we haven't won anything yet.

Just keep winning.

The Opera ain't over til the fat lady sings

by Cbeck3 on Sep 20, 2007 8:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: It was us in the rear view that made them coll
Yes, just keep winning.

Some in RSN are sweating already with our boys closing in. Read this recently:

"Oh, and in case you didn't know, it's completely OK to slam down that panic button now, the Red Sox look like a Dead Team Walking...."

IMO - there is still much baseball ahead. I agree with above, the Jays are going to put up a fight. A true challenge ahead.

by cliparttattoo on Sep 20, 2007 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The best part about the Yankees winning
is that it never fails to make pfisty disappear.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Sep 20, 2007 10:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: The best part about the Yankees winning
I'm still around. I have just been blogging on another site. With the regulars mostly gone, the quality of posters has really plummted around here in my opinion. I think the average level of baseball understanding is not where it used to be, and that was always the draw for me. Perhaps some of the new posters are just too young.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 20, 2007 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am sure that all you "regulars"
will be back in force at the first sign of trouble.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Sep 20, 2007 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I am sure that all you "regulars"
Can't speak for the others about coming back, just mentioning that there has been a migration. The ration of clueless people in here got too high, so we went somewhere with a more informed base.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 20, 2007 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And they let you in?
OK just kidding but I owed you a shot!
The Opera ain't over til the fat lady sings

by Cbeck3 on Sep 20, 2007 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good to hear that all the people who
are absolutely wrong about everything have found a place where they can console each other.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Sep 20, 2007 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay,
but if Moose is a key starter next year, tell mg I'm expecting to hear from him.
The blogger formerly known as 'chris'

by LateInningRelief on Sep 20, 2007 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We will both
ride our flying pigs to your front door and apologize in person.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 20, 2007 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent.
Bring beer, and we'll sit down for a game.
The blogger formerly known as 'chris'

by LateInningRelief on Sep 20, 2007 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Excellent.
Wow.

We didn't miss you MG.

This team is the best in baseball right now, and their spot in the playoffs is all but secure.  Only a bitter broken down fan who is upset that all his doomsday predictions didn't come through would still be upset about the events of April and May.

The fact of the matter is that Cashman has been brilliant from mid-season on, and no one in the bullpen looks any worse for wear to me.  Viz has been great since he came back.

And every button Mr. Torre has pressed lately has hit the jackpot.  

WHAT TEAM ARE YOU WATCHING?

If you want to see a dunce, look in the damn mirror.  You have been proven 100% wrong with your dire predictions, and I for one am not going to reach a hand out to pull you back up onto the ship you deserted months ago.

If you want to root for a team that will always dissapoint you, try the Cubs.  

by matthaggs on Sep 20, 2007 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Deserted
You wear going to all the game as a badge of honor.

Plenty of people go to all the games and don't know what the hell they're talking about.  In fact, I'm replying to one right now.

There are countless posts from you essentially giving up on the season.  

At least Pfisty knows what he is talking about occasionally.

by matthaggs on Sep 20, 2007 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

MG,
as I recall, I said I thought Moose had it in him to push his way back to being a quality starter for the Yankees. Your words, I believe, were, 'You're a moron.'

I am not going to go dig up the #s of 38 year-old pitchers who were able to play a key role in a pitching rotation. It's a dumb argument because nobody knows what will happen in the next 12 months. Can he totally fall apart? Sure. But the point is that the opinion that he still has something left in the tank is neither moronic or uninformed.

You are right that there are some opinions that are just beyond the pale. It would be dumb to propose Gagne take Papelbon's position as the RS closer. It would be dumb to propose that Cairo bat cleanup. But proposing that Cairo makes a decent mascot for a blog--well, jeez, I don't see that that's anything to get your panties in a twist over. And that Moose is a competitor and could still find (and appears to have found) another gear, well, that strikes me as actually a more even-handed view than yours.

The blogger formerly known as 'chris'

by LateInningRelief on Sep 20, 2007 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: MG,
You make a good point on his durability. The biggest problem the Yankees have right now is that their two most veteran starters look like they need 10 days of rest each.

But the Yankees may be in a position to work a 6-man rotation for part of the season and won't need as many innings from him. (You do realize that Joba's coming out of the pen, right? jk)

I don't think Moose is going to need to prove his value for next year in the next few starts simply b/c his contract pretty much guarantees that, short of a complete fizzle, he's going to get the chance to compete for a spot.

We're good on the moron point. In retrospect, it was an inauspicious start.

Keep posting.

The blogger formerly known as 'chris'

by LateInningRelief on Sep 20, 2007 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: MG, Sorry to hear that
I've enjoyed meeting and talking baseball with you.  If you don't come back, I hope to see you on the roof.
The Opera ain't over til the fat lady sings

by Cbeck3 on Sep 20, 2007 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm...
I would consider myself a newbie, and I regularly attempt to engage in dialogue related to the game itself (e.g., statistics, strategy), most of the time to no avail. So, on one level I commiserate.

Yet, this type of "flight" might be a part of the problem.  Perhaps if you've invested some time in a community you have some responsibility toward its upkeep?  

Then again, your post smacks of hubris--as though you have a clue and the masses are clueless. I'm not sure if that is a reflection of your attitude in general or not. But, I do know that I'd rather converse with those who may know less about a subject but are civil and humble than arrogant individuals who think they know more than they really do.  

"God, I just love baseball." - Robert Redford in The Natural

by uflyibuy on Sep 20, 2007 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Newbies aren't necessarily the issue
Hell, garp is still around and he never had a clue. It is just more of the fact that when the old guard left, a lot of what is left were the posters who don't understand the subtleties of the game quite as well. That isn't a knock on them and is probably most due to lack of age and/or experience, but it makes the PA experience less enjoyable. If you really into baseball, dealing with people like strapped yankee gets really old really fast. It is like going to a chess match and shouting for the players to "move the horse head around the board."
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 20, 2007 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny. I have no clue yet I am usually
right and you are consistently wrong.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Sep 20, 2007 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup
Yes garp, you are consistently right. That is why you are mocked openly and people avoid agreeing with you at all costs simply to avoid being lumped in with you.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 20, 2007 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Since when are you "people?"
Is there perhaps a multiple personality disorder in you history that you have not disclosed?

The one conventional wisdom that all people on this board accept (including yourself, it seems)is that you are an asshole.

Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Sep 20, 2007 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am an asshole
But can you recall a single argument where anyone agreed with you or stood up for your position? Me neither, nor can I recall you ever winning an argument other than that one with chris a while back.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 20, 2007 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I am an asshole
I think I agree with Garp on this argument.

And he's winning this one.

If the Yanks lose two in a row you'll be back.

It's even hard for someone like you to complain during a stretch like this, so you have nothing to write about.  

Almost everything you have said and forecasted about this team has been incorrect.  If anyone looks like a dope here, it's you man.

by matthaggs on Sep 20, 2007 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a first
Look, the point all along before we were sidetracked is that a lot of the regulars have left because the level of discourse and knowledge among the posters has gone down. Look the game threads from the last few games and tell me if that is worth it, compared to how it was last year at this time. Haggs, you are one of the few left who actually understands baseball even if we disagree from time to time. You can't tell me the quality of PA is the same as it used to be. Hell, jscape also noticed a decline and he is a moderator. That is all I am saying, garp's retardation aside. The game threads now are just overrun with insightful "yeah, the Yankees are winning" posts and the diaries are not very in depth either. Better discourse has moved to other avenues. I am trying to get a bunch of the regulars back to PA, but I have not had any luck. (Oh, and yes I still bitch up a storm elsewhere).  
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 20, 2007 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point. PA has been totally missing
insightful posts referencing Cashtard, how Minky sucks and you calling people some variation of retarded. It's time to close this mother down.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Sep 20, 2007 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You mistake delivery for lack of substance
I can understand why you are easily distracted, but the use of nicknames and other expressions should not take the focus off the debate. We do need a GM, Minky is horrible, etc. for reasons which I have repeatedly and clearly delineated. The people that used to be worth discussing those opinions with (absent jscape and haggs) are by in large now gone.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 20, 2007 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: You mistake delivery for lack of substance
The people who believe we need a new GM and that Minky is horrible may now, by and large, be gone, because making those assertions at this juncture comes off sounding, uh, dumb?
The blogger formerly known as 'chris'

by LateInningRelief on Sep 20, 2007 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hardly
Three games doesn't turn Minky into anything but an atrocious hitter, nor does it excuse the continued retention of our sub par GM.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 20, 2007 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: That's a first
Losing breeds discussions.

Winning all the time is great for the team but bad for a blog.  There's nothing to talk about.  

No one is sucking, no one is making bad decisions.  No one needs to make suggestions on how to fix something because nothing is broken.

Now if the Yankees were going through something like the Mets or Red Sox are right now, there would be discussions/arguments galore.

by matthaggs on Sep 20, 2007 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Losing does breed discussion
But take a look at the last few weeks of game threads. Pretty minimal substance there. It is like watching the game with ten year olds.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 20, 2007 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly my point
Winning makes people act like ten year olds, that goes from the players on the team, to the coaches, to the announcers, and all the way to the fans.  

If the blog suffers for it, so be it.  I'll the winning every time.

by matthaggs on Sep 20, 2007 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is a good point
I hadn't thought about that. That may account for some of it, but what about those of us who want the Yankees to play Billy Ball, etc? How many times do you need to suffer through that?
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 20, 2007 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: That is a good point
Even that was a sugggestion to turn around a struggling team.

A desperate suggestion.

A bad suggestion that came from frustration.

The Opera ain't over til the fat lady sings

by Cbeck3 on Sep 21, 2007 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with the part
about you being an asshole. Not sure yet about your belief that the Tigers will overtake the Yankees on the strength of Sheffield's foul balls. I'm still waiting on that one.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Sep 20, 2007 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pfisty,
since I believe you really are in this for the rhetorical exercise, not the baseball chat, let's dissect the meaning of your self-important valediction here.

You are leaving, you say, because there's not a lot of informed baseball talk here, which, in your view, centers on a few core theses: Moose is a bed-shitter, Torre is an ignoramus, the GM is a Cashtard, Abreu is Senor Hustle, etc. And those who offer differing opinions are morons, retards, pussies, gay, etc.

Now, let's take the position that the FO is reading PA.  Do you really think they're going to think, gee, this guy really needs to come in from the cold--he really gets it.

Please. If A-Rod leaves the Yankees cuz that's how Boras rolls, if Moose is waived before 2008, if the Yanks lose the WS because Torre blows out the BP, then great. You were right. You can come over here and gloat, and we'll all suck it up.

But how you come to the conclusion that you're bringing the informed opinion is beyond me.

The blogger formerly known as 'chris'

by LateInningRelief on Sep 20, 2007 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
I really wasn't trying to stir up a hornet's nest. Just explaining why I had tapered down lately. I had talked to MG about this before. This isn't some "this place sucks, come to my new blog" rant so much as it is us expressing our disappointment that the PA is a shell of its former self. It used to be engaging, fun, and insightful. As a frame of reference, garp stood out as the village idiot. Now, with the influx of new folks, he is about to qualify for MENSA. One need not look any further than that for a before and after case study.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 20, 2007 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Go cry it to your pussy father.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Sep 20, 2007 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow
You are making zero sense.

When was the last time Abreu tried to bunt?

Giambi isn't at first base right now because he got hit by a pitch.

And Minkie has been making game saving plays there with a few big hits sprinkled in.

When you go to the games, do you watch them, or do you smoke weed in the bathroom and wait for YMCA come on?  

You're time away has made you more moronic.  

by matthaggs on Sep 20, 2007 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Wow Abreu bunts to try to break a slump
or when he's uncomfortable at the plate.  This was quite a bit in the first half of the season when he had trouble hitting his hatsize.  I was trying to be patient with him because I knew he was bunting to avoid striking out, but it got on my nerves too.

Hit and run is old school baseball.  I agree it's often a bad idea, but it is 'conventional' with senior baseball people.  Listen when mercer and O'Neil talk about it.

The Opera ain't over til the fat lady sings

by Cbeck3 on Sep 21, 2007 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Never say never
I don't know the particular thread you're talking about, but so what if you have to make the point that it's a mistake to ever bunt your # 3 hitter? Could spark an interesting discussion.

 

The blogger formerly known as 'chris'

by LateInningRelief on Sep 20, 2007 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, I have been here since the
beginning of this blog and longer than you.

The fact that you consider assertions like "the Yankees can still win the division" and that Detroit is not in the driver's seat when they were 3 games out as absurd is enough evidence for me that you might be a tad clueless.

Either way glad to see you are still alive. I thought that the recent winning streak pushed you to slit your wrists or something. Glad to hear that you found a new place to bitch, moan and complain about the Yankees.

Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Sep 20, 2007 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly
My point was now that garp has become the norm, rather than the comically entertaining exception that we all used to know and love.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 20, 2007 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow! That did not even make
sense. How will we ever survive without such high level discourse as yours?
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Sep 20, 2007 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Who is bill james?
The Opera ain't over til the fat lady sings

by Cbeck3 on Sep 21, 2007 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Who is bill james?
The godfather of sabermetrics. His Baseball Abstracts ought to be required reading for every tv/radio announcer on the planet.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Sep 21, 2007 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Who is bill james?
No.  You have to teach.  You can't respond to honest questions with hostility.  If you're always negative you'll drive away the people can want to learn and can learn, then all we're left with is the ones who don't read your response and just keep spouting nonsense.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Sep 21, 2007 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
Cbeck is not part of the problem at all.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 21, 2007 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

MG, you know
If I am right, and this is a very good team, then the fanclub talk is the knowledgeable talk.

I did not just have faith in this squad because their the Yanks.  I looked at the guys on the field.  Objectively they are not all gold glove silver sluggers.  But they are a very good group.

The Opera ain't over til the fat lady sings

by Cbeck3 on Sep 20, 2007 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I noticed it too...
Relaunch and Mg post once in awhile but not nearly as often as before.

I'm sure Joe has his hands full with River Ave Blues which turned out great I go there every day to check it out... They are even trying in game threads now, but I like the commenting system on this website so much better I have never tried it.

Eleven wins in October...

by Edwantsacracker on Sep 20, 2007 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I noticed it too...
The main difference (in my mind) is that this is a forum while that is a blog. Those guys do a wonderful job (I'm a daily reader), but the advantage of PA is that if you have something to share you can post a diary and start a discussion.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Sep 20, 2007 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like the input
I like the discussions... But I used to get so angry listening to people bitch all the time about the team.

I know there is a difference to being a Yankee fan and being a baseball fan. The baseball guy looks at the whole league and rationally chooses the best team. They see teh shortcomings in thier team and they want to fix them.

Mike Mussina is getting too old to pitch. I know that. A faceball without movement or speed on it is just batting practice, and we saw some starts that looked like batting practice didn't we?

But then early last season he was the best pitcher on our club. As a Yankee fan (and I know a less intelligent baseball fan) I look at that and say, Moose knows that whatever he did in the offseason this year isn't going to cut it. He knows that he has to do what Stick told him to do and get in the weightroom and put some life back into that faceball.

My Dad says he "adopts" the players. I guess I try to do the same thing.

Thats part of what annoyed me most about the alley earlier in the year. It doesn't annoy me when someone who obviously knows nothing about baseball says something stupid (suzyn waldman being an exception) but when Pfisty is going blowersan this blowersan that... I know that Kei Igawa sucks. I watch the same game. I just wish he didn't.

I wish we could have intelligent conversation about baseball while remaining optimistic fans.

Eleven wins in October...

by Edwantsacracker on Sep 21, 2007 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The soberest comment on this thread
Ed, I think you just put it into perspective. I also think that we can be optimistic fans and simultaneously conduct intelligent baseball discussions.

I do have to disagree with your second to last paragraph. Yes, we know Igawa sucks, but when some people try to defend him, to me it's worth it to hit that nail again.

Just to get my last few words in, I don't think the doomsday callers were necessarily wrong back in May. We were 1/3 through the season, and the only indication that they would turn it around was the backs of their baseball cards. Thing is, in baseball, there are no guarantees that guys turn it around.

Abreu looked like shit. You figured, based on past performance, that he'd turn it around, but that's no guarantee. You don't know what's going on inside his head and what the condition of his body is.

Who knew Jorge would keep up his torrid pace all season? There is nothing in the past that indicated that he would.

Who knew that Cano would turn it around? Yeah, we all figured he would; we've seen him and his sweet swing for two years. But he's still young. Pitchers were approaching him differently. There are no guarantees that he could make that adjustment.

Thankfully, everything fell into place. They don't always do that, though. We were also greatly aided by a flurry of injuries to the Red Sox. If they stayed healthy, they'd be far ahead of us now. And hey, sometimes teams do stay healthy all year -- 1998 Yanks, 2001 Mariners, anyone. The craziest part is that they were doing so well, and Drew, Manny, and Ortiz weren't hitting near their abilities. It was a legitimate concern in May that they'd get those guys back to pace (you know, like Abreu and Cano did) and just obliterate the competition.

The cards fell our way. They're not always going to do that. When you're 21-29 and your adversary is 36-15, it's time to think that things might not go your way this season.

Sorry for the rant. I just feel that the "we were right!" crew right now is unjustified. Especially garp, who is nothing if not inconsistent.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Sep 21, 2007 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair points
but if you read the stuff MG posted yesterday, he's still complaining.

Early on all the complaining bothered me too, but at least it was justified relative to the team's crap performance.  

To complain about stuff now doesn't make any sense to me, and some of the people who were complaining early on sound very bitter now, as if maybe a small part of them subconsciously wanted the team to go into the tank so they could post "I told you so."  

Get over it and enjoy it while it lasts fellas. This is our best shot in the last four years at #27.  

by matthaggs on Sep 21, 2007 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You got it
This is definitely our most well-rounded team in years. It's not to an ideal level, but it's better than the freakin' 2005 team.
River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Sep 21, 2007 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm...why am I not surprised
that you feel that the "we were right!" crew right now is unjustified? What is amazing, though, is how much you missed the point. When the team was down, most people (including me) were bitching and moaning. The problem with the gloom and doomers is that they complained throughout 10 game win streaks and are apparently still complaining despite the Yankees practically clinching a playoff spot and in striking distance of the division.

Igawa and Pavano have not pitched in months. Cairo is long gone. We get it they suck. At some point, though, it is time to move on.

One last point. You guys really need to get over yourselves. This ain't ESPN.

Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Sep 21, 2007 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: You're right MG
But I think my optimism was of the, "It's too early to give up. We still have a chance." type.

I do not think I ever was sure we'd do it.  Although I expected Bostons problems.  Manny and Ortiz are getting on and never in great shape.  Based on the history of Japanese pitchers I expected Dice K and Oki to come back to earth.  Pap has no history of durability.

I thought our injuries would heal and our slumpers for the most part regress to their history.  No guarantees, but we don't have to expect the worst either.

But what really saved us was that the kids did OK. Melky has been a man this year.  He has grown a lot in my eyes. Cano too. Viz rallied, Mo rebounded.  Joba, IPK, Hughes, adding Rocket, recallin Andy P.  We really didn't come back with all the same guys who fell behind.  The offensive core really can hit.  Even with injury plagued, substandard years from Matsui and Damon  this is a good team.

The Opera ain't over til the fat lady sings

by Cbeck3 on Sep 21, 2007 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think this is a battle
between the 'we were right' group and the folks who were down on the team. Clearly, anybody who thought the Yankees would be contending for the division at the end of May was a huge optimist.

However, being an optimist and knowing baseball are not mutually exclusive.

The issue on PA is one of tone. On May 29, your blog  posted this informative discussion on whether Cashman was the problem or the solution.

This, to me, is an informed point/counterpoint. I come down on the side of the Cashman defenders on the post, but both sides of the issue are well-argued and devoid of the PA orthodoxy that turns every semi-controversial opinion into a flame war.

In one of my first experiences here, I posted a diary you may remember on keeping Chamberlain in the bullpen. In this morning's Times, Harvey Araton interviews Rich Gossage on the same topic:

"I really don't see how they can think about making him a starter after what we've seen," Gossage said in a telephone interview. "You can find starters -- I know they have other young kids -- but how are you going to find another character like him? How are you going to replace him? Before he came up, those setup guys were killing them."

I gotta assume Gossage qualifies as a knowledgeable baseball guy.

I'm not trying to revisit the topic, but hoping to shed light on the shaky foundation that the negative guys build for themselves sometimes. When you come down so harshly and so negatively on a reasonable position, driving opposition away, there's going to be a backlash when the weapons of mass destruction don't turn up.

I can't really comment on whether the PA discussions have gotten better/worse/stayed the same over the last 12 months; I've only been posting for 4 or 5 weeks. But I've got a Yale degree. I watch 90% of the Yankee games. And I'm old enough (39) & have managed enough people to be even-handed when it comes to evaluating how to deal with under-performing personnel.

I gotta believe I'm informed enough to venture the opinion that Cashman deserves some credit these days, Moose still has something in the tank, Joba in the bullpen is worth exploring & Torre is the best person to manage the team. You may disagree, but that's really the point of the forum, isn't it?

It's a shame that MG, Pfisty and ReLaunch feel the need to go elsewhere. But if they're going because people disagree with them over whether Abreu should never bunt, that's on them. In my view, they should stick around and take it upon themselves to truly inform the discussion & take the forum to the next level.

The blogger formerly known as 'chris'

by LateInningRelief on Sep 21, 2007 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
and again, the wrong people are taking offense here. I think you are fine and open to hearing other ideas and so his cbeck. (and he lets me tease him for having a mangina.)

To me, there is a huge discrepancy between game threads and topical diaries. It seems like over the last month or so, the game threads have been lame. Perhaps that is just because winning makes us giddy like haggs said or just due to more traffic overall, but I just miss the more informed debate. I am not giving up on PA (and I am trying to convince others to come back), but I just wish there was a way to get back to the good ole days where garp was the village idiot rather than the voice of reason.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 21, 2007 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am still trying to figure out why
you, the biggest, whiny, pants-peeing, doom and gloom bitcher and moaner is looking for someone to be a "voice of reason." It certainly wasn't you with your constant personal attacks and redunadant and irrelevant complaints.

In your defense, at least you were not as pompous and self-inflated as mg with all his "we regulars" BS talking like this was his site and he was hosting Baseball Tonight.

Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Sep 21, 2007 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

When I was
in high school, I got pissed when all the new fans jumped on the Springsteen bandwagon after 'Born in the USA.' He was much cooler circa 'Born to Run', when he was still somebody only those in the know cared about.

PA's growing because it is well-threaded and gives non-admins the opportunity to set an agenda. I'd just get used to the bigger tent. Every family needs the uncle who's a little embarrassing. So we've got a few of those. Where would be without somebody giving anaconda agita over all the squirrel references?

The blogger formerly known as 'chris'

by LateInningRelief on Sep 21, 2007 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Springsteen
The River was his best album, anyway.
River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Sep 21, 2007 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I gotta go with BTR,
but The River's in the running, along with The Wild, The Innocent & The E-Street Shuffle.
The blogger formerly known as 'chris'

by LateInningRelief on Sep 21, 2007 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please, don't bring up the Gossage article
The biggest misconception the media perpetuates is that ballplayers know the most about baseball. In truth, they don't. Yes, some of them have picked up invaluable knowledge along the way; we can look to our own Stick Michael as a shining example. However, that doesn't mean all ballplayers have this knowledge.

What qualifies Gossage to make these statements? Even the writer, Araton, mentions in his piece that Gossage was a filthy reliever, but had failed in his only season as a starter. So what? We're supposed to believe whatever this former ballplayer -- this clearly biased former ballplayer -- says, just because he threw baseballs?

Your second to last paragraph nails it. I agree with everything but the Joba sentiment. Cashman deserves more than some credit nowadays; Moose still has something in the tank, though recent seasons in which his stamina and durability have declined would suggest that it's not much; Torre is the best person to manage this team this year (seriously, who else would you have brought in last off-season, and if you say Girardi or Pineilla, I'm just going to cease discussion).

I'm not going to re-argue the Chamberlain point. I believe we came to an understanding in the long-ago diary. You have to explore Joba as a starter. To me, it comes down to this. You're drafting your franchise. Who do you take, K-Rod or Santana?

If Joba doesn't work out as a starter -- and he has all the tools to do so -- then you can re-explore the relief role. But if you just keep him in the bullpen, you're basically taking K-Rod when there's a possibility (though clearly not a given) that you're passing up Santana.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Sep 21, 2007 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One more thing
Players vote for the Gold Glove. Jeter has won multiple awards and Raffy won one in a year when he was a DH. Players aren't necessarily the brightest.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 21, 2007 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice, well thought out
I agree that if Joba wants to start, we have to try it out and see how he does.

If Joba wanted to stay in the pen, like Pap in Boston, I might let him unless a real starter emergency developed.

A point about Gossage.  He was a reliever.  He naturally thinks of them as key to the team.  Someone else might have a different point of view, say a lifelong starter.

I was a soccer goalie.  When I watch soccer I usually root for both goalies.  I am the only soccer fan I know who hates goals.

The Opera ain't over til the fat lady sings

by Cbeck3 on Sep 21, 2007 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly
Great point on Gossage. It illustrates ballplayers' natural biases, many of which impair their complete understanding of the game -- the kind of understand that would allow them to handle being an analyst (though Joe Morgan somehow gets away with it).

That's why I like the outsider perspective. Yes, we have our biases, but they're not as firm as someone who was playing the game for 10 or 15 or 20 years.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Sep 21, 2007 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right
that Joba's got to get his chance to start, and cbeck brings up a good point re: Gossage's POV.
After getting my PA colonic on the Joba-in-the-pen argument, I agree that Gossage is wrong on this. As anybody who has ever read Schilling's blog knows, baseball players don't necessarily know anymore about the game than the rest of us.

I was just bringing up Goose's perspective by way of demonstrating that suggesting it ain't the same as suggesting that Betemit should pinch-hit for   A-Rod.

The blogger formerly known as 'chris'

by LateInningRelief on Sep 21, 2007 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Point taken, then
River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Sep 21, 2007 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good to see you, Joe
We've missed you over here.

Great job over at RAB.  

by anaconda on Sep 21, 2007 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I try to make an appearance every now and then
Life sometimes gets in the way. I'm also working on another baseball blog project, so yeah, time is thin.
River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Sep 21, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Understood
It happens to the best of us.  Good luck on the new project.

by anaconda on Sep 21, 2007 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I noticed it too...
I agree with what Pfisty and Mg have said about where PA is going.  I loved this site before but it is obvious why I can't stand it anymore.  I do disagree about Haggs though, even though we might not agree all the time, he always gives a good discussion/points.

Don't worry, we can still play whiffle ball on the top of lot 3 (and I'll still have my grill there too)

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Sep 20, 2007 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'll always have Paris...
The blogger formerly known as 'chris'

by LateInningRelief on Sep 20, 2007 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Off-topic
But since the regulars might catch the question in this thread, why is PA also called www.captain-tenille.org?

by SP on Sep 21, 2007 1:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Off-topic
Wow.
That is bizarre.  I never knew that.  How did you find that out?
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Sep 21, 2007 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clearly
SP is a fan of C&T.

You know how I know you're gay?

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Sep 21, 2007 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Clearly
I thought that was Coldplay.

by SP on Sep 21, 2007 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Asia, too
River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Sep 21, 2007 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Clearly
You can throw out the name of a C&T song without Googling it?
The blogger formerly known as 'chris'

by LateInningRelief on Sep 21, 2007 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everybody knows
that one song they did - Islands in the Stream?  Who the fuck knows - so that doesn't count.

by docgonzo on Sep 21, 2007 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No
And that's how I know I'm not gay.
River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Sep 21, 2007 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uh oh,
one of their tunes just came to mind. Didn't they do 'Love Will Keep Us Together'?

I swear I am not gay. Just grew up in the 70s.

The blogger formerly known as 'chris'

by LateInningRelief on Sep 21, 2007 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And don't forget
Muskrat Love

Muskrat, muskrat candlelight
Doin' the town and doin' it right
In the evenin'
It's pretty pleasin'

Muskrat Susie, Muskrat Sam
Do the jitterbug out in muskrat land
And they shimmy
And Sammy's so skinny

And they whirled and they twirled and they tangoed
Singin' and jingin' the jango
Floatin' like the heavens above
It looks like muskrat love

Nibbling on bacon, chewin' on cheese
Sammy says to Susie "Honey, would you please be my missus?"
And she say yes
With her kisses

And now he's ticklin' her fancy
Rubbin' her toes
Muzzle to muzzle, now anything goes
As they wriggle, and Sue starts to giggle

And they whirled and they twirled and they tangoed
Singin' and jingin' the jango
Floatin' like the heavens above
It looks like muskrat love

La da da da da ...

Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Sep 21, 2007 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You swear you
didn't Google that?
The blogger formerly known as 'chris'

by LateInningRelief on Sep 21, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No need. After all...
"Nibbling on bacon, chewin' on cheese
Sammy says to Susie "Honey, would you please be my missus?"
And she say yes
With her kisses "

What can I say but "Greatest lyrics ever!"

Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Sep 21, 2007 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And...
that is a fitting coda for this thread, I think.
The blogger formerly known as 'chris'

by LateInningRelief on Sep 21, 2007 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Off-topic
I was googling for an old thread related to the above arguements, and a hit came back with that address instead of the usual one.

by SP on Sep 21, 2007 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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