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Game #130 -- New York Yankees at Detroit Tigers

New York Yankees

Johnny Damon,  DH
Melky Cabrera,  CF
Bobby Abreu,  RF
Alex Rodriguez,  3B
Hideki Matsui,  LF
Jason Giambi,  1B   
Robinson Cano,  2B
Wilson Betemit,  SS
Jose Molina,  C

Phil Hughes,  RHP  (2-1,  4.96)


Detroit Tigers

Curtis Granderson,  CF
Plácido Polanco,  2B
Marcus Thames,  DH
Magglio Ordóñez,  RF
Carlos Guillen,  SS
Ivan Rodriguez,  C
Sean Casey,  1B
Brandon Inge,  3B
Cameron Maybin,  LF

Jair Jurrjens,  RHP  (1-1,  3.29)


Both starters are making their first career starts against the opposition.  Interestingly enough, both have outpitched and beaten Fausto Carmona within the past two weeks.  

In fact, Jurrjens has made two major league starts and both were against Carmona -- a pretty tough challenge for anyone, much less a youngster.  Gotta wonder how the Yankee offense will handle this kid since we all know that they tend to have trouble with pitchers they've never seen.

Speaking of offense, Hideki Matsui is hitting .405 (30-74), 2 HR, 16 RBI, and 18 runs scored in his last 19 games.  Must be the porn.

Pete Abraham reports that Ian Kennedy will not be among the minor leaguers called up to the big club when the rosters expand on Sept 1.  Although disappointing, it's not exactly shocking news considering the strict innings cap the organization has on him.

The featured graphic for today's game is an alternate team logo of the Detroit Tigers from 1967 to 1977.

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I-Rod's back in the lineup
Let's see if Abreu can steal 3 bags today.

by chrisNYY on Aug 26, 2007 12:47 PM EDT reply actions  

He also calls
more fastballs behind the plate to throw out more runners.

by Mr Farley on Aug 26, 2007 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ahem
Abreu did it.
Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 26, 2007 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did what?
Stole 3 bases last night?

by chrisNYY on Aug 26, 2007 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stole a base
his 21st.  with Pudge behing the plate. Too bad A.Rod Struck out.
Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 26, 2007 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok
I had to check the gameday at MLB to verify. It was so fast I thought I imagined it.
Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 26, 2007 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Free today on MLB.tv
Although it's the home feed.  I can't believe the Tigers make their announcers wear those matching 70s dork shirts.

by SP on Aug 26, 2007 1:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Huh
Says that I'm blacked out. Oh well.

by PsiFighter37 on Aug 26, 2007 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

LF
Wow, who knew we traded for Manny in left?

by SP on Aug 26, 2007 1:17 PM EDT reply actions  

What a start
by Hughes!
Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 26, 2007 1:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Awful
way to start the game by Hughes.  Meatball to Guillen.  He has shown in his starts this year, if he doesn't get ahead, he gets hammered.
Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 26, 2007 1:25 PM EDT reply actions  

P
Wow, who knew they put Igawa back in the rotation?

by SP on Aug 26, 2007 1:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Hm
Rough time for Hughes...does anyone think this season's lack of success (so far) is going to hurt his long-term development?

by PsiFighter37 on Aug 26, 2007 1:26 PM EDT reply actions  

He's still young
when he gets behind, he get afraid to throw his 2nd or 3rd pitch for strikes.  It comes from confidence.  When he falls behind a fastball is coming.

by Mr Farley on Aug 26, 2007 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

HaHa....
I see the lynch mob is out early today.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 1:29 PM EDT reply actions  

The "Franchise"
now has an Igawa-like ERA of 5.61. I know it is blasphemous to question the second coming of Cy Young, but this kid has sucked this year.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 1:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Giambi needs to be playing everyday
Don't know why that isn't apparent to our manager.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 1:33 PM EDT reply actions  

I can't agree with this...
I'd like to see Giambi get more ABs, but he should not be in the lineup every day. His body just wears down too easily.  
"God, I just love baseball." - Robert Redford in The Natural

by uflyibuy on Aug 26, 2007 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

He can DH
but I agree he can't play the field every day. Honestly with Damon heating up I wouldn't mind sitting Cabrera on the days that Giambi DH's and play Giambi at first a couple of times a week.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holy Cow!!!!
Jergens Hurt!
Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 26, 2007 1:34 PM EDT reply actions  

You never like to see an injury
But we will take what we can get.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 1:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Tough break for the kid
but the Yanks catch a big break with Jurrjens now out of the game.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 1:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Huh
Never seen someone get injured from grooving a fastball.

by SP on Aug 26, 2007 1:35 PM EDT reply actions  

I thought he got whiplash
from watching that ball get out of the park
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doesn't that
mean Mussina is hurt,  He's grooving everything.

by Mr Farley on Aug 26, 2007 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

He did the same
thing against LA. Gave up early runs then gritted it out. Hopefully he does the same and this time, Joe doesn't send him out for the 7th.

by chrisNYY on Aug 26, 2007 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

BTW....
the White Sox just lost again.

Once again, just practicing for the real thing later today.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 1:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Doesn't matter
They have no shot at catching Boston, especially if they drop 3 of 4 in Detroit this weekend. Seattle is the only team that matters right now.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Guess Not Today
AAAGGGHHH
Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 26, 2007 2:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Hughes
I am not so sure that it is automatic to give him a rotation spot next season. I know he is a rookie, but he has completely shit the bed in the rotation this season.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 2:01 PM EDT reply actions  

I still think he's a lock for the rotation
next season.  

However, this is why I don't think Moose is going to get traded and Kennedy moved to the rotation.

I know these kids have a lot of talent, but I just can't see the Yanks coming out of Spring Training with 60% of the rotation comprised of rookies.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am scared to see IPK
if Hughes is the best of the bunch and this is what he has shown. Yikes.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why are we so surprised?
I had initially thought the thinking had always been for Hughes to spend this year at Scranton and be ready for next season. He only came up because everyone else (DeSalvo, Clippard, Wright) shat the bed when they pitched.

Honestly, though, it's not like they would have been much worse than Hughes has been.

by PsiFighter37 on Aug 26, 2007 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is true
but none of those other guys was supposed to be the best pitching prospect in baseball.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Growing pains
most young pitchers have them, unless they have blow you out of the batters box stuff like Joba.

It's unfortunate he's having them in the middle of the wild card chase, but this will help him be a better pitcher next year.  

by matthaggs on Aug 26, 2007 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope so
but at some point growing pains start to turn into proving to be overhyped. The kid has no stamina and has been getting rocked. The fact that it is in the wild card race is just a double negative for the Yanks.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

He has shown
enough flashes to indicate to me that he will be a very good pitcher for many years.  

Too early to tell if he'll be a #1 or a #3, but he'll be fine.  

Look at the first years of guys like Smoltz and Clemens.  

by matthaggs on Aug 26, 2007 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Flashes of brilliance
plus he's come back from some poor early innings.

by chrisNYY on Aug 26, 2007 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

He has shown flashes
that is true, but unfortunately they have been sprinkled in amongst bedshittings. I still think that he will be a good pitcher, but I don't think he has shown enough to warrant a rotation spot next year. Then again, if A-Rod leaves, they are going to have to rebuild so I think that letting him mature in the majors will be worth it.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Cashtard keeps his ground
then he will walk because I think he will certainly opt out.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I gotta believe
Cashman's taking a bargaining posiion. He can't think he's suddenly Billy Beane.

by chrisNYY on Aug 26, 2007 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hughes was the best of the bunch
earlier in the season.  

But, it seems like most of the "experts" on evaluating kids says Joba is going to be better.

I know Keith Law and others subscribe to this theory.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

After watching Hughes
that is pretty easy to see. All Joba has to do is keep his ERA under 6
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to make excuses for him...
but his development was stunted a bit as a result of the hammy and ankle injury.

Leiter was just talking about how he needs to develop a third pitch to be effective.

I thought Hughes had a change-up?  

I guess it's not developed as much as we were told because I don't recall seeing him throw one in the last few starts.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do
think the hammy has something to do with this. The DL can screw with your mindset.

by chrisNYY on Aug 26, 2007 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

We can make excuses all day
which is what a lot of Yankee fans are having to do to justify his hype. The kid's ERA is sky high and he shit the bed again today. With Moose throwing BP again tomorrow, we are looking at dropping 3 of 4 at a crucial time.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Someone
woke up on the wrong side of bed today.  

It's fine if you're giving up on this season, today would mark the 10,000th time you've done that.

But throwing Hughes under the bus for next year is bad even for you.

by matthaggs on Aug 26, 2007 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not giving up
I realized they weren't making the wild card a long, long time ago. I am just saying that I don't think that Hughes has done anything to earn a rotation spot as of right now. That being said, I am all for giving the "holy trinity" rotation spots next year if A-Rod leaves since they won't be close to the playoffs if that happens. At that point, might as well let the kids develop while they rebuild.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you're not giving up
because you already gave up?

They have a very good chance at catching Seattle or Anaheim given the schedule.  

And if they make it they will be a very tough out.

by matthaggs on Aug 26, 2007 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

My position remains the same
I stated very, very early on this season that they wouldn't make the playoffs and have not wavered. The fact that they have crawled back into it by beating up on the underbelly of their schedule has made things exciting, but at the the end of the day I still think they are on the outside looking in. I think CLE, DET, BOS and LA are your AL playoff teams this year and have for months.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Um
Detroit is behind the Yanks and Seattle.

If the Yanks don't have enough time to catch the M's how does Detroit?

by matthaggs on Aug 26, 2007 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure if you noticed
but I don't have the M's in the playoffs.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did notice
That's why I asked the question.  Perhaps you should read it again.

Of Seattle, the Yanks, and Detroit, Detroit is playing the worst baseball and has the most problems - they just lost another starter today. And the Yankees are two games ahead of them even after losing today.

Detroit is a dumb pick, unless they win the division.  In that case Cleveland would be a dumb pick.  Only one of them is going to make it.

by matthaggs on Aug 26, 2007 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did read it again
and it made as little sense as the first time you asked it. I think that the Yankees and Detroit both have plenty of time to catch the Mariners. I also think that the Indians and Tigers will finish ahead of the Yankees. Thus, one of the two of them will win the wild card.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hughes needs to throw more fastballs
He gets behind on the count when he can't locate his curve and gets pounded when they know a fastball is coming.

He falls in love with the curve too much.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 2:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Molina
Called 3 straight fastballs to a fastball hitter?  The Detroit announcers were saying there's no way he'd be dumb enough to keep throwing fastballs.

by SP on Aug 26, 2007 2:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Ha Ha....
Maybe I should have written "throw more well-located fastballs."

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

He could throw
an eephus as far as I'm concerned, so long as he starts locating it.

by chrisNYY on Aug 26, 2007 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now that is 5-4
Hughes has to bear down. Lets see..
Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 26, 2007 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Abreu
turning on the pressure.
Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 26, 2007 2:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Matsui
nice piece of hitting.
Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 26, 2007 2:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Pitching stat
Does anyone track the stat runs scored off BB?  As in, how many runners who reached due to a BB are allowed to score against any given pitcher?

by SP on Aug 26, 2007 2:20 PM EDT reply actions  

What happened?
GameCast says I-Rod got ejected...

by PsiFighter37 on Aug 26, 2007 2:21 PM EDT reply actions  

argued
calls
Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 26, 2007 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hughes
just needs to become consistent.  He looks like completely different pitchers from one inning to another.
Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 26, 2007 2:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Again,
behind the count.  
Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 26, 2007 2:22 PM EDT reply actions  

molina is slow
i wonder if bowa will send molina from second.

by BillyBobisdrunk on Aug 26, 2007 2:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Only if
Abreu hits a double.
Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 26, 2007 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Boston
winning 1-0 J.Drew HR. Jeez White Sox Suck!
Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 26, 2007 2:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh no you didn't
They're talking smack about ARod stranding runners- that's not good karma.

by SP on Aug 26, 2007 2:36 PM EDT reply actions  

We need to "grind"
this one. Hioe Hughes has the gonads.
Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 26, 2007 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Detroit announcers
Arod was up with 2 on 2 out and they said, "Here's Arod, with a chance to strand some more runners."  Which he did.

by SP on Aug 26, 2007 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

White Sox Tied Game!
Guess they heard me.
Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 26, 2007 2:41 PM EDT reply actions  

I said this earlier....
but Leiter and Kay are talking about Hughes and how he needs to develop a third pitch.

Maybe I'm wrong, but wasn't he supposed to have a change-up as well?

Obviously, if he does, it's not nearly as developed as we were told because I don't recall him throwing it at all since his return.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 2:45 PM EDT reply actions  

True
missing pitch. However, he seems to be getting in a groove.
Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 26, 2007 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Small victories....
It may not mean a whole lot in the box score, but it was important that Hughes finished up well and saved the pen a couple of innings.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 3:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Jorge
Pinch hit if Betemit reaches?

by SP on Aug 26, 2007 3:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Some perspective...
Some important numbers to remember:

12.19.84
9.23.85
6.24.86

I'm sure everyone here is already aware, but perhaps it's good to refresh everyone's memory. Those, my friends, are the birthdates of Ian Kennedy, Joba Chamberlain, & Phil Hughes, respectively.  Hughes is a 1 1/2 yrs. younger than IPK.  But do you see him down in the minors getting the kid gloves treatment?  Nope. He's up here banging with the big boys in the American league--and he just turned 21.

Yes, he has struggled at times. Today is a great illustration. Some control problems. Gave up a couple of big flies. Certainly not an epic performance. But, also note that he's only given up 4 hits through 6, has a WHIP below 1.00, and a 6:1 K/BB ratio. Not anywhere close to being a "bedshitting".  The evidence suggests that there are far more reasons to be excited about his future than cynical.

Once he elevates the mental side of his game to equal his physical gifts, I truly believe he is going to be a quality pitcher in the bigs for a long time. Bank on that.

"God, I just love baseball." - Robert Redford in The Natural

by uflyibuy on Aug 26, 2007 3:14 PM EDT reply actions  

They absolutely treated Hughes
with kid gloves in the minors.

They capped his innings last season just like they are now doing with IPK.

Hughes' big problem right now is the same as many other pitchers his age.  

He's falling behind hitters at times and then grooving a fastball when they know it's coming.

Too many walks is a problem for him too.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

The point is...
developmentally, I have seen nothing to suggest that Hughes isn't on track to be a quality pitcher for years to come. Last year, Baseball America projected Hughes to be the Yankees' #1 starter in 2010.  The problem is, fans expect him to be a #1 in 2007.  Many people that post here have such unrealistic expectations, it borders on psychosis.
"God, I just love baseball." - Robert Redford in The Natural

by uflyibuy on Aug 26, 2007 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't expect him to a #1
but I do expect a Yankee starter, even one who is a deity like Hughes, to keep an ERA under 5. Sorry if that is too much to ask.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Hughes is going to be
a quality starter.  He's just taking his lumps like anyone else.

I remember watching Greg Maddux in Chicago his rookie season and he got lit up all the time.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think
Hughes was born the day I graduated from high school. Man, I feel old.

by chrisNYY on Aug 26, 2007 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Farnsworthless
Man he is fucking frustrating. If he had pitched like this all season, we might have been able to make the playoffs.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 3:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Anybody know
if Farnsworth's resurgence coincides with Joba's first appearance?

The Joba effect?

by chrisNYY on Aug 26, 2007 3:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Actually
Farnsworth last gave up a run on August 4, against KC. Joba's first games was August 7, agaist KC. Since then, Farnsy's given up 1 hit in 6 innings.

by chrisNYY on Aug 26, 2007 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a shame that Farnsworth
can't pitch like this more often because he clearly has the type of stuff to be dominant.

Too bad his 10 cent head gets the best of him most of the time.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 3:22 PM EDT reply actions  

This is it!!
Now or never.  Let's dril Zumaya!

by BillyBobisdrunk on Aug 26, 2007 3:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Damn it Melky
Stop the fucking sliding into 1st.

by SP on Aug 26, 2007 3:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Melky really needs to stop sliding
into First Base.  

How do players not understand that they slow themselves down?

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 3:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Torre should sit him
He has been told numerous times not to do it, so I think Torre should bench him for a game or two.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think so too
But Torre doesn't do that.  

If he did, Cano would have been benched a few times this season for all of the boneheaded mistakes he's made.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're right
It won't happen, but it should. If Melky was on the Tigers, he would have already been pulled.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Next season....
I don't think Mattingly would do it either.  Girardi I could see doing it.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

True
then again, next season Damon may very well be somewhere else so they may not have the option of benching Melky!
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also true....
although I don't think Damon is going to get traded for one reason or another -- even though he clearly isn't an everyday player on this team right now.

They may keep Damon simply because Giambi's health is always a concern now and they may need him for depth.

An expensive bench player, but I don't know that a bunch of teams are going to hammer Cashman's door down to take on that contract.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think so
Even the Yankees don't pay their bench player $26M for two years. Considering that Damon has already bitched about playing time, I don't see how he can return unless they trade Melky this winter. They are going to have to eat a ton of the contract and will get shit in return, but Cashman could make a trade like that in his sleep since that is his bread and butter move.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah
like Inge got pulled when he stood there as Molina caught his pop up in fair territory earlier today - a far worse offense than Melky's.

by matthaggs on Aug 26, 2007 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Something tells me
that Leyland hasn't told Inge not to do that several times. That is the difference.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe
but you bench a guy for not running hard, like what Inge did, or what Reyes did a few weeks ago.

Sliding into first base is retarded, but benching a guy for doing it in the middle of a playoff chase is twice as retarded.  

by matthaggs on Aug 26, 2007 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

You also bench a guy
for defying you on several instances. It is retarded to slide into first, but my real beef is with Melky choosing to either ignore or defy Torre. That should get you pine time.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not defiance
it's instinct that causes him to do it.

Roberto Alomar slid into first base all the time.  I'm guessing a guy as valuable as him was told on many occasions not to do it.

It's a fineable offense, not a benchable offense.

by matthaggs on Aug 26, 2007 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

We can agree to disagree
I admit that the sliding isn't a huge crime unto itself, but I have a real problem with the fact that he has been told on several instances not to do it.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always wondered..
...about that. Have there ever been any scientific studies on whether you can save a split second by sliding into first base? It seems to make sense that if you do it perfectly, you could get to the bag a little bit quicker.

by BobbyNYC on Aug 26, 2007 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just the opposite
It is actually much faster to run through the bag.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes
As Bobby Valentine (I think)once said, if it was faster to slide sprinters would dive across the finish line.

by matthaggs on Aug 26, 2007 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe A. Rod
should sit one out. 3 ks today.
Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 26, 2007 3:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Tomorrow
may be good. To rest. Besides with Mussina. Well, it does not look good.
Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 26, 2007 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Leiter
said sliding is slower so there you go!...Hughes isn't the same pitcher we saw in Texas. His velocity is down...He as at 93-94 a few months a go, today I think he had one pitch at 92...The rest were about 90...

by John Amato on Aug 26, 2007 3:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Shit
What a goddamn rotten game to lose, especially with Meltdown on the hill tomorrow.

by PsiFighter37 on Aug 26, 2007 3:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Yup
another solid pennant race start out of the Franchise.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

He wasn't great
but he wasn't bad either.  

They should have been able to score more runs against Durbin and Seay.  

by matthaggs on Aug 26, 2007 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really?
5ER in 6IP against a lineup without Sheff? You really have high standards.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones???
We can hit this guy!
Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 26, 2007 3:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Damn
Now we got to depend on Moose for the split...

by John Amato on Aug 26, 2007 3:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Fuck
I bet Cano hit into a DP. I can feel it even before GameCast posts it...

by PsiFighter37 on Aug 26, 2007 3:49 PM EDT reply actions  

How's that Matsui play
in the first looking? Either dive or keep the ball in front of you.

by John Amato on Aug 26, 2007 3:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Not as bad
as the two bombs that Hughes gave up
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

root for the Rangers tonight
also the Blue Jays!  The White Sox are awful.

by BillyBobisdrunk on Aug 26, 2007 3:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Let's Go MARINERS!....
Thanks guys....have fun with Boston this week.

by LongBeachDave on Aug 26, 2007 3:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Goes to show every game counts
even at the beginning of the season.  The Yanks are still playing good ball, but their atrocious April-May is rearing its ugly head.

by docgonzo on Aug 26, 2007 4:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Yankee fans are often way too reactionary
and their attitudes towards this team change with every win or loss.

Seattle has an enormously tough schedule coming up and they are going to lose ground in the WC standings.

Their next 10-game road trip is brutal:

1 @ CLE
3 @ TOR
3 @ NYY
3 @ DET

They are going to be playing a lot of tough games in Sept and the Yanks' brutal schedule is almost over.

I still say the Yanks will win the WildCard.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

One problem
Right now, 60% of the Yanks' rotation (and probably closer to 80% if Wang's effort last night is not a sign that he is heading back in the right direction) makes you cross your fingers every time they start. Clemens, Moose and Hughes aren't inspiring any confidence right now and it is tough to win with that much uncertainty from your starters.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wang will be fine
Moose was fine for two months when he pitched against bad teams and they are almost done with the tough part of their schedule.

Hughes will get better the more he pitches because he's also not going to face many elite teams in September.

Clemens is Clemens.  He has a stinker once in awhile, but he's solid more often that not.

I guess I'm a "glass is half full" type of guy with this team because their success the last decade.  

You, on the other hand, have always seemed like a glass is full of a "prison cocktail" (blood/urine/feces) type of guy.

Just my observation over the past two years I've been visiting/moderating PA.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree
plus, their offense is so good, the starters don't have to be great.

What Hughes did today - 6IP, 5 runs, would be a win for the Yanks more often than not.

In addition, their bullpen outside of Henn has been dominant the past week or so.  

Of further benefit to the Yanks, Seattle and LAA are tied in the loss column, and they have 7 games left to play against one another.  

by matthaggs on Aug 26, 2007 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I admit that I am highly critical of the team
I guess I am a Steinbrenneronian at heart. This is the premier franchise in sports with a completely unfair economic advantage over their competitors. I expect excellence and I am not ashamed to criticize the team when that isn't produced.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I totally get that...
and I think most of the criticisms are warranted.

However, financial advantage or not, no team is going to win every season no matter who they are.

Dynasties always end at some point and an organization has to rebuild sooner or later.

It happens in every sport -- baseball, basketball, football -- college and pro.

When you have 30+ other teams vying for the same trophy every year, they are going to be knocked off their high horse.

The Yanks have always had a major advantage over the rest of baseball since the old days because they invested into their farm and often grabbed the young stars the day of their high school graduation (like in Mantle's case) before other teams could have a shot.

They were a big part of the reason why baseball invoked a draft because they were getting a lot of young players that other teams couldn't do and it was deemed unfair by MLB.

It's a little different now, but having a resource advantage over every other team is hardly anything new for this franchise.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I completely understand that
By no means am I suggesting that I expect them to win a ring every year. However, given their resources, I do expect them to be in the mix on an almost yearly basis. When the front office constructs the team poorly and thereby does not put the team in the best position to make a run at it, that is where my criticism lies.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can't argue with that....
But at the same time, I would argue that they are indeed in the playoff mix every season.

Even if they don't make it this season, they have been right in the middle of the playoff hunt since June/July and will probably be there until the end.

I have many problems with Cashman's moves over the years, especially with the Igawa deal, but I think his pros have clearly outweighed his cons too.

In an unrelated note, it's always funny how these boards have much more traffic after a Yankee loss than after a win.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Better to be pissed off in here
than be a dick to my wife and have to hear her bitch. Actually, I mean be more of a dick than usual, but you get the point.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Duly noted....
Can't argue with that either.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some say...
organizational success and failure starts at the top. You could make a sound argument that much the Yankees' struggles in recent years stems partly from Big Stein. Cashman has taken the blame for several failed moves that George pushed. Plus, George (along with all-too-many Yankee fans) has a win-now-or-else mentality that promotes myopic decisionmaking.

The Yankees' reign of excellence from 1996 to 2001 was fueled by the virtues of their farm system (along with their obvious economic advantage). But Steinbrenner couldn't help meddling in personnel decisions, and quite often, the Yankees suffered for it. Fortunately, George seems to have backed off in the past couple of years and let Cashman do his job.  In that time, we've gone from a completely depleted farm system to one of the game's best (again, $ doesn't hurt).

The moral of the story, as I see it, is that money alone does not guarantee excellence. In many cases, the moves you don't make turn out to be the best ones (See: Gagne). Hang tight, let the young pitchers continue to develop, and this team will be in good stead for years to come.  

"God, I just love baseball." - Robert Redford in The Natural

by uflyibuy on Aug 26, 2007 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I give Cashman
credit for not only demanding the reins, but also using his power to reverse a pretty huge Steinbrenner trend, i.e., spending huge amounts of $ for veterans. Whatever you think about his individual moves--and Igawa and Pavano certainly blew up on him--the guy has sack. Had the baby bombers blown up (still could, of course) and had Gagne pitched lights out...

by chrisNYY on Aug 26, 2007 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

That "easy" September
includes a bunch of games against the O's. I think the Yanks are around 4-8 against them this year.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think what I said is reactionary at all
It's simply true.  If the Yanks played even a mediocre .500 in those months, today's lost would be less devastating ; also, the AL East would still be attainable.  I've now conceded to the fact that the Red Sox will win the division.  I was much more confident a couple years ago that the Yanks could overtake them.  Not so today.  I do believe, however, the Yanks can take the WC.

As for Moose, I'm calling it right here and now: 6.2IP, 3ER, 5K, 2BB.  He's due for a good start.

by docgonzo on Aug 26, 2007 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

A couple of years ago, huh?
Miss Cleo in the house!
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I probably shouldn't have
replied to your comment specifically because my objective wasn't to criticize your point.

I just think people often seem too reactionary when this team loses.

However, it's hard to blame the losses in April on the season because of all the injuries they sustained in the rotation.

This team had so many rookies pitching games that had no business being here but it was out of necessity because of injuries and ineffectiveness (Igawa).

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have to agree
intellectually with all of the arguments that say Seattle will not make it to the playoffs.  I want them to make it....even win the division and have the Angels totally out of it, but I don't see it happening.  Last night's loss to the Rangers was too painful to bear.  Still, at least it is fun being in this position, where Mariner fans have not been for 4 years.  It should be a fun, if nerve-wracking, last 5 weeks of the season..

by LongBeachDave on Aug 26, 2007 4:31 PM EDT reply actions  

At least you can take solace
in the fact that your idiot GM grossly overpaid to keep Ichiro. Paying a singles hitter $20M as he approaches 40 should be fun.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

At least
Beltre and Vidro will come off the books after the 2009 season.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 26, 2007 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Buster Olney on the Joba rules
Here is what he had to say in his blog today. Not much new to report:

Nardi Contreras controls the Joba rules, writes George King. These really aren't the Joba rules, by the way, as much as they are the Torre rules; this is the Yankees' organization protecting Joba Chamberlain from Torre, who, for all the good things that he's done as manager, has a long list of burned-out relievers on his resume. Steve Karsay, Paul Quantrill, Tom Gordon, Tanyon Sturtze, Ron Villone, Scott Proctor, etc. And some relievers who pitched for him will tell you privately that they were concerned that he would do -- or did do -- damage to their careers.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 4:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Hmmm....
This sound familiar:

Thanks for rehashing
the same discussion we have had several other times. Is your blog filled with more original ideas?

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sun Aug 26, 2007 at 10:34:58 AM EDT  

by matthaggs on Aug 26, 2007 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not rehashing
just letting those of you too cheap to pay for ESPN Insider into what was said by Olney.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks.....
I love Buster and pfisty sometimes pastes his blog entries for my benefit.

Although, I might take issue with the "too cheap" part.  I had a problem with identity theft last year because of info some asshole got from a credit card.

For that reason, I'm holding off on getting another one for awhile until I really need it.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is rehashing
you said yourself "not much new to report"

And it's the idiot George King that Olney is getting the info from, thus rendering it worthless.

ETVal's post was better than yours.

by matthaggs on Aug 26, 2007 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks Simon Cowell
I was simply trying to do a favor for folks who don't have Insider. I have done it in the past and have been thanked for it. That is light years from plugging one's own shitastic blog. Also, the real value in the Olney piece has nothing to do with King. His own opinion on what Torre's players have whispered about his Abu Ghraib bullpen style.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fine
just noting that you killed ETVal for bringing up a topic you thought had been discussed to death, and then you did the exact same fucking thing.

Your post would have been fine had you not posted what you did earlier on his diary.  

In fact, your post belongs on his diary, not in a game thread.  

If you're gonna bash other people for their stupid posts, someone should bash you for yours.

by matthaggs on Aug 26, 2007 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was misplaced
I agree, but I was simply trying to do a favor for the resident cheapskates. For the record, the only reason I put ETVal on blast is because he is a troll with nothing more to offer than plugging his blog o' suck. Sorry it got your panties all in a bunch.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Someone
has their panties in a bunch today, but it ain't me Mr. Phil Hughes sucks.

by matthaggs on Aug 26, 2007 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey...not all of us can afford
$1200 pussies (when you're not in Vegas) or an interior decorator!  LOL.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Understood
which is why I am happy to throw some Olney action your way
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 26, 2007 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whether ETVal or Pfisty
should/shouldn't have posted the question, I think the rules are excessive--an over-correction. If anything, they should be concerned whether Joba's getting enough work. I'd like to know how many pitches that guy has thrown since he came up. Has he even thrown 100 since August 7?

by chrisNYY on Aug 26, 2007 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't be opposed
to letting Joba pitch on back-to-back days as long as he gets a day off after his second stint in a row.

I do think putting strict rules on him is the right thing to do -- regardless if those rules get in the way of this team going to the post-season.  

However, I also see what Torre is saying too and wondering if they really need to give Joba a day off after an appearance when he blows hitters away and only throws 10 pitches.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Clearly Torre
is more concerned with right now than next year. With all the buzz about Cashman's farm haul, he knows he alone will pay the price for missing the post-season. But can you really handcuff a manager like that? Haven't seen a front office dictate those sorts of personnel moves, well, since George...

by chrisNYY on Aug 26, 2007 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that Cashman
is going to be back next season, whereas Torre will not.  

So, their agendas are slightly different because Cashman is looking more towards the future and Torre is focused on now.

Steinbrenner's sons are more involved with the team since his daughter filed for divorce from the heir apparent and they seem to like Cashman.

Not only that, but I tend to believe that Cashman will be largely credited for the resurgence of the farm the last couple of years (whether some regulars in PA believe he deserves the credit or not).

Simply put, it's hard to fire Cashman when there is nobody on the forefront ready to take over the reigns and the team seems more inclined to promote from within than hiring someone from the outside.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

True
Cashman and Torre have different agendas. I think Cash will definitely be back next year, and I think he's earned it.

But I'm not sure I buy the conventional wisdom that Torre would ruin Joba if he weren't given some strict ground rules. One could argue that Torre has actually gotten career years out of guys like Proctor and Villone. Stanton, Nelson & Rivera all thrived under him. I don't think the guy's a genius when it comes to bullpen management, but he's being treated like the Marquis de Sade.

by chrisNYY on Aug 26, 2007 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't always buy the comparisons
with Joba and guys like Sturtze, Quantrill, Proctor, Villone, and others because those guys never had anywhere near the talent that Chamberlain has.

You're right -- Mo, Stanton, Nelson, and Wetteland (for one season) all thrived under Torre.

Torre does, however, have a long track record of overusing his best options out of the pen.  I don't think there is any question about that.

What it boils down to is that the Yankee starting pitching is nowhere near as strong now as it was in the late 1990s and early 2000s when said relievers thrived under him.

Obviously, when the starters aren't eating up innings as they should, you tend to put a lot of extra strain on the good arms in the pen.

Torre has never been a great handler of the pen, but that trait didn't rear it's ugly head until recent years when the rotation was suspect.  

His decision-making was far better back when he had the horses and his starters were doing the job by throwing quality starts almost every night.

by anaconda on Aug 26, 2007 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well
it's only natural, isn't it? When you've got limited options out of the pen, you go with the one that's gonna put you in the best position to win the game. Seems like the fault lies with the man (Cashman) who didn't give him other options.

And, ironically, he's the one now wrapping Torre's knuckles for poor usage of the poor options he gave him.

by chrisNYY on Aug 26, 2007 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Check out the posts
up at RAB and NoMaas.  Seems like it's Torre whose kept Britton out of pinstripes all along (I've been suggesting that for a while, Cashman seems to smart to make some of the stupid moves that have been made).
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 26, 2007 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I saw the article
on Torre's turning down Cash's offer to bring up some minor leaguers after Friday's marathon. His point, I think, was that they had Wang on the mound Saturday and didn't need immediate help.

Whether Henn should continue to take a spot better suited for Britton is a different question. Certainly it confounds all common sense for Henn to still have a roster spot.

by chrisNYY on Aug 27, 2007 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

122 pitches
since he's arrived, according to Tyler Kepner.

The Gary Smith story in SI should be good, whenever it comes out.

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/25/torre-puts-his-trust-in-tampa-no-really-he-does/

by matthaggs on Aug 26, 2007 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting
that seems to sum up the double-edged sword of the Joba rules right there.

by chrisNYY on Aug 26, 2007 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some good news
Texas beat Seattle.

Tomorrow is another day.

And The Yankess are still The Yankees.

Good night all.

Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 26, 2007 11:17 PM EDT reply actions  

standings
just took a look at the MLB standings today...

despite being 10 games under .500, the reds are closer to first place (6 1/2 out) than the yankees.  

and they say the NBA's atlantic division is bad?  check out the NL central.  yuck.

by Clutch like Leyritz on Aug 27, 2007 9:01 AM EDT reply actions  

The entire National League
blows
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 27, 2007 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

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