Keep Chamberlain in the Bullpen

Do

you know who the free agent starters are? Probably not since you posted that. Schilling, Weaver, Clemens, Lieber, Garcia, Silva, Lohse. Yup, thats alot of winners there to count on!

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 1:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Are you proposing

3 starters under 22 years of age? For 162 games?

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So tell

me then from the list above, which free agent would you want? Take into consideration Clemens most likely will be 1/2 a season and same with Schilling (injuries).

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Schilling

said he won't come here. Not that I would want the fat, pompous douche.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Clemens

much as he's overpriced.

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But it would

only be for half a season. Hence, more of the reason to have Joba in the rotation

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Keep coming back, Chris

We disagree on this topic, but we always like passionate fans who have a differing opinion.

This forum would be a lot more boring if we all agreed on everything.

by anaconda on Aug 24, 2007 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I will take the high road and simply say that I disagree with your idea. Joba has #1 potential (the most expensive/riskiest free agent commodity) and there is simply no reason to trade 200 IP for 70 relief innings. Just because the Tigers made a mistake with Zumaya doesn't make this any less of an atrocious idea.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 1:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

200 IP means

nothing in the post-season. You need 3 quality starters and a dominant closer. Let's remember that the Tigers "mistake" paid off far better than any of the Yankee's bullpen moves last fall.

This is the Yankees. It's all about the post-season...

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uh, you need good starters to get there

Starting the season with Igawa and Pavano is what got the Yanks in this mess

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chris

I'm with you on the other thread but not on this one.

It's a bad idea, especially since the Yanks will get about 2 more solid years out of Mo, so he wouldn't be closing games here anytime soon.

Wang, Pettitte, Joba and Hughes in the rotation next year is the way to go.

by matthaggs on Aug 24, 2007 2:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

The kid is new so we can cut him some slack, but this proposal is just a horrible idea. Joba could probably be a great closer, but that is such a waste.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We would

at least have the wild card now, even with a fairly uneven rotation, if we had a consistent bullpen. Look at the impact that would have had on just Monday's game: With a shutdown 7-9 group, Torre would not have pitched Hughes in the 7th, and we'd have taken that game.

If Pettitte returns, we've got 2 solid guys at the top of the rotation w/ Wang. If Kennedy and Hughes perform up to expectations in the 4 and 5 slots, we need a free agent 3rd starter. Clemens doesn't look so bad then.

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

so moose

gets $11.5M to sit in the pen? or do we eat that cash? (i wish, but it ain't gonna happen)

why go to FA when there a cheaper stud already in uniform... joba's gotta be the guy.

Well, baseball was my whole life. Nothing's ever been as fun as baseball. -Mickey Mantle

by NumberSeven on Aug 24, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

frankly I think Moose can be the # 3, but I don't want to propose TWO controversial opinions at once.

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alright man,

thats #2 today. Next one, I think your going to get it from the PA regulars.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Indeed

The rookie can get a little leeway but he is teetering close to the edge......

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dude

didn't see this comment when I waved the white flag. C'mon, you've got to have a better bellwether than how a guy pitches in a slump. Were you one of the guys booing A-Rod last year?

Mussina may, in fact, be done, but he had 3 quality starts at the front end of July.

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not only are his skills

declining.. but his crotchedy-ness towards the umps is taking him out of the game more so than it used to.

Well, baseball was my whole life. Nothing's ever been as fun as baseball. -Mickey Mantle

by NumberSeven on Aug 24, 2007 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There we have it folks

Moose as a #3!! That is our show for tonight. Enjoy your weekend everybody, tip your waiters!

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

or how about...

moose as the lefty specialist?

i know, i know... he's a righty, but could he be any worse the myers??

kidding of course.

Well, baseball was my whole life. Nothing's ever been as fun as baseball. -Mickey Mantle

by NumberSeven on Aug 24, 2007 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you may be kidding

but lets not forget how terrible mike myers was.

"It's great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Aug 24, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he's # 3

who is 4 and 5?

The Freddie says guy and Cotton Eyed Joey?

by matthaggs on Aug 24, 2007 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

only if they need TJ

Well, baseball was my whole life. Nothing's ever been as fun as baseball. -Mickey Mantle

by NumberSeven on Aug 24, 2007 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Think long term dude

Trading 70 innings of value for 200IP is absurd. Joba has a chance to be an ace for the next decade. If they can pair him with Hughes, they have a chance to have a championship duo like Arizona had with Unit and Schilling.

On the other hand, they could waste Joba's talent by making him a starter. I don't know about you, but the idea of Joba earning a save in one of Carlos Silva's starts doesn't really inspire much confidence.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They are going

to have maybe 3 young starters in the rotation. (Joba, Hughes, maybe IPK). With the amount of innings each has thrown this year, they will not be able to pitch a whole season without being shut down for some amount of time. Keeping Joba in the pen would hurt that situation even more.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who

made them "fear the evil empire" the most? Pettitte, Clemens, Cone, Wells?

Mo?

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

George Steinbrenner

"It's great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Aug 24, 2007 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Boss' checkbook

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You

think George was the face of the Yankees during their championship run?

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the

face was Kenny Rogers.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you asked

who made them "fear the evil empire" the most, not who the face of the franchise was. big difference.

"It's great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Aug 24, 2007 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll re-phrase

the question:

Which pitcher contributed the most to the Yankees' championship run?

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well,

if you are going to say MO, I would only counter by saying he also lost 2 WS for us (AZ 2001, and against the RS in 2004... I'm assuming we would have beat the Cardinals)

....i still love MO though.

"It's great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Aug 24, 2007 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

that's sort of my point. Mo lost his mystique with Gonzalez's bloop single.

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What?

Mo did not lose the 04 playoffs for the Yanks. It was again Torre's horrendous bp managment. Yes, Mo could have gotten Millar out to lead off the inning and none of that would have happened.

But brining in Mo in the 8th with 2nd and 3rd and 0 out? What do you expect. Also, a pitcher that can't walk around the mound in game6, and not 1 bunt? Using Gordon to pitch the 9th in a 19 to 8 game?

Please.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't really

mean to BLAME Mo for the losses, because much more went into the series than just his performance. But Mo DID have the opportunity to close out the series and he didn't. If he had, we would have won the world series..... Of course, if any other number of things had happened we could have won as well, so I'm not trying to pin the loss on him.

"It's great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Aug 24, 2007 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mo

But what that has to do with the Lucchino's evil empire comment is beyond me.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

but the reason that other teams "fear the evil empire" is financial. The reason that Lucchino coined the term was because we outbid them for Contreras. I don't seem to recall him saying, "Mo is a great postseason pitcher. Damn the Evil Empire."

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

For the future

When several people instantly post an almost identical response to your take, that is probably a good sign that you are off base.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Plus

with Joba and Hughes getting some great late-season experience under their belts it can only be a positive for next season.

Well, baseball was my whole life. Nothing's ever been as fun as baseball. -Mickey Mantle

by NumberSeven on Aug 24, 2007 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

just look at what the red sox did

they desperately tried to get papelbon into the rotation and only reverted to using him in the bullpen after they had ZERO options. It seems clear around baseball that a dominate starter is vastly more important than a dominant closer.

Examples: Papelbon, Smoltz, Schilling, probably others.

I think a good closer is very important, but not as important as a 20-game winner.

"It's great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Aug 24, 2007 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Question 1

Can Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, Kennedy & Moose/Clemens/FA get the Yankees to the post-season pitching 6 innings a night?

Question 2, if so, can Wang, Pettite and 1 of the other 3 combine for 4 series wins pitching 6 innings a night?

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again

think long term dude. Joba is a commodity to be used/valued for the next decade.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

i would rather see job pitch thousands of innings as a starter than a few hundred as a closer.

"It's great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Aug 24, 2007 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

joba

"It's great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Aug 24, 2007 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How's this for long term

Wang
Hughes
Kennedy
Sanchez
TBD

Closer: Chamberlain

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would flip flop

Sanchez and Joba

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

how about THIS long term

Santana
Wang
Hughes
Chamberlain
Kennedy

Set-up: Sanchez
Closer: K-Rod

(I'm thinkin big)

"It's great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Aug 24, 2007 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

All right

I've stirred up enough trouble for one afternoon. Don't want mg to have an aneurysm.

Whoever made the comparison to Unit and Schilling was convincing.

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I said

a number of things you disagreed with. Not the same as stupid.

The 'mistake' the Tigers made in putting Zumaya in the pen would have won them the World Series had it not been for the fact that somebody upstairs finally decided to give LaRussa his due.

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh Lord

You're wearing me down, man. I'd hate to see how you react when you lose.

Wang has been pitching below par for the last few starts. Are you ready to send him to Scranton?

I have no love lost for Moose, but he is still young enough to rebound. The guy is what, 37 years old, & he's not a flamethrower.

Pettitte had a rocky middle part of the season and he's now the staff ace.

Maybe Moose is done, but some fine-tuning of the mechanics & a little off-season air could make a difference.

Hughes, Kennedy, Chamberlain--one of those 3 could lose the strike zone like Ankiel did. Until Mo become Mo nobody thought he was much to look at.

What crystal ball are you privvy to?

Moose has never been a lights out ace, and he's never been as gritty as some. But he's been an effective # 3 for the Yankees for 5 seasons. He may rebound. I wouldn't bet the ranch on it, but it's hardly a 'stupid' opinion to say let's see where he is at the end of the season before writing his obit.

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Young enough to rebound?

Only Bonds gets better at age 37

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I would rather have

a young guy in the rotation struggling than an old guy in the rotation struggling.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 24, 2007 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

'Twas me

Solid job taking a mulligan, rookie!

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I say

give the rookie till Sunday. He may have potential to improve.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

C'mon now

The Joba to the bullpen thing wasn't all that bad and he clearly corrected himself once the debate was hashed out. I applaud that.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Easy there

The kid is a rookie. Give him time to demonstrate that he has a fundamental misunderstanding. For now, I still think it is a positive sign that he admitted his wrong.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Every time I try to get out...

...he keeps pulling me back in.

Look, mg, what I contributed was the liveliest discussion of the day on the blog. Ain't that the point?

You have yet to make an argument other than that what I've said is stupid, that it is holy writ that a great starter is more valuable than a great closer.

River Ave dude made some solid points. A few other guys have been right on point. My hat is off to the well-formed opinion.

Give me an hour or two, and I'll go find some other moron opinions from experts that Joba should stay in the pen.

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My beef with that

"Look, mg, what I contributed was the liveliest discussion of the day on the blog. Ain't that the point?"

Not really. I could start a diary saying that Joe Torre should be back next year, and it would have over 100 comments in no time.

I understand that some people have seen Joba work 8 innings out of the pen and think he should stay there. We're just trying to add perspective to what is a flimsy analysis. Joba is only in the pen now because he was a beyond dominant starter from May through July.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Aug 24, 2007 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe I need to get a better...

...understanding of what is a reasonable question. There are robust and lively discussions on both armchairgm.com and baseball-fever.com on the question of joba in the pen. Google "keep joba in the pen."

I agree with the consensus that he should be moved to the rotation next year. I don't agree that it was a silly or stupid question to ask, or that the initial phrasing was based on flimsy analysis.

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good for armcharirgm and baseball-fever

We actually conducted a poll. Keeping him as a starter won in a landslide.

http://riveraveblues.com/2007/08/23/joba-pollin/

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Aug 24, 2007 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So...

your blog asked the very same question, huh?

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not the question that's the problem

I never said it was.

It was the analysis of why you thought he should be in the pen.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Aug 24, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure

there's any other analysis for making the case.

Either you think that the Yanks need him in the pen more than they need him as a starter OR you think it's a shame to waste him on the bullpen.

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But

The case for him being a starter is far more compelling. First you have the 200 innings vs. 70 innings argument. Second, he's a gas-throwing starter, something the Yanks have sorely lacked for years. Third, the landscape of the Yanks farm system is flush with pitching prospects, many of whom can make the transition to the pen. With that kind of talent, you're bound to find a closer somewhere or another.

On the other hand is the Joba in the pen case, which is based on three or four minor league innings and eight big league ones. Yes, there's the argument for his potential to be the next Mo. But, as I said, the Yanks have enough arms that they should let the power starter start.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Aug 24, 2007 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Now

we're arguing balls and strikes again.

I actually didn't like the 200 IP v 70 IP argument. Don't think that matters as much with a team that's traditionally built for the post-season. Gas-throwing starter doesn't do it for me either, as Wang is plenty effective w/out the heat.

I liked your third point the best. That, and the prospect of having a Drysdale/Koufax one-two for years to come.

That won the day.

Anyway, somebody will probably disagree with something, but unless mg calls me a moron again, I'll sign off on this thread and make my slow, weary way back from the front.

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Once again

You can't call a team built for the playoffs unless they get there first. 200 innings of Joba will help them get there better than 70 innings of Joba.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Aug 24, 2007 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Geez

Get the sand out your vagina dude.

The guy asked a question and, aside from the Mussina thing, has made some fairly intelligent posts as to why he asked the question in the first place.

I understand (and Chris understands) the logic in having Joba as a starter and the value that brings.

Excuse us for getting excited at the notion of having a nuclear option for the 8th and 9th innings.

by matthaggs on Aug 24, 2007 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I gotta agree here

The venom is unnecessary on this one mg.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ditto.....

by anaconda on Aug 24, 2007 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sure your family loves you

mg, but you ain't melting my heart.

Pettitte, Wang, Hughes and Kennedy look pretty formidable for 2008. You guys are already comparing Hughes to either the Unit or Schilling, and I'd be pretty comfortable that that rotation would get us to the post-season. Add Clemens or a FA, and I've got the most faith in our rotation since the 90s.

I'm not saying that a quality starter isn't as valuable or more valuable than a quality closer. Indeed, anybody with a passing knowledge of life (not just baseball) understands that if you don't place your team in a position to win by the 6th, then the greatest bullpen in the world doesn't mean crap.

My point is that the Yankees have a lot of good options for the rotation next year. And that being the case, it is a fair and reasonable question to ask whether Chamberlain, who has demonstrated he can function in relief, wouldn't contribute more to the team as a reliever, where he alone among those options has proven he can thrive.

I'm not arguing with Pinstripe Power's knowledge of the farm system. If we got other, better guys for the closer's role, great. I just don't find the idea that 200 IP by Chamberlain is of that much greater value than 200 IP by Kennedy to merit keeping Joba on the definite track for the rotation.

Frankly, I think 2008 starters, w/out Joba, could have a sub 4 ERA.

Eat a peach, man.

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Joba and Kennedy

are really not even comparable. Despite everyone's drooling, Kennedy is a fourth starter at best. Putting IPK into a trinity with Hughes and Chamberlain is like parking a Ford next to a Beamer and a Benz and then saying that "those three cars over there are worth a lot of money"

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kennedy's got a 1.86 ERA

Seems pretty solid to me.

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Minor league stats

are not as telling as they appear. Look at Mighty Matt DeSalvo's ERA before he came up.

My statements on IPK are more of a reflection on Hughes and Joba's talents than a criticism of Kennedy. Kennedy is a good pitching prospect; the other two are great.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

with you but I'm pretty sure the same was said about Mussina before he became Meltdown.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry to butt in

I justed wanted to see how skinny these posts can get. Carry on.

by docgonzo on Aug 24, 2007 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Have nothing new

to add, other than that there is only one other diary in 2007 with more comments: Cbeck's on keeping Joe Torre a week or so back. Cbeck has the 2007 record of 157 comments.

In the interest of putting this over the top, seeing how skinny the posts can get AND wiling away time in hopes the skies in Detroit clear, here's one more.

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

can it get even skinnier?

What a Joba by Joba! -John Sterling

by goyankees on Aug 24, 2007 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

SKINNY!!!

"It's great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Aug 24, 2007 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 25, 2007 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Glad to see it was me

That made you see the light. It is all fine and dandy to be constructed for the postseason, but actually getting there would help too. What you are proposing is like running a goal line offense at the 50 yard line.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And...

I believe Cbeck3 made a post on Monday with the basic gist of praising Cashman and Torre.

Flimsy analysis? Stupid? Or a difference in opinion?

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't read it

No comment.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Aug 24, 2007 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

cbeck

is the most optimistic person in the alley. Dude makes Glenda the Good Witch seem like a downer.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

TBD has a nasty slider

If you gave a GM a choice between adding an elite closer and a potential ace starter to their team next spring versus adding two ace starters, they would take the latter every time.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

Rob Neyer was on Max Kellerman yesterday and said that he would put Joba in the BP. Yes, I know he is not a GM but someone that you do like from what I remember.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay, mg,

Is he a moron, too?

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Neyer is usually pretty good

but he misses the boat from time to time

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

neyer is all right

but he is such a blatent yankee-hater that i don't see how he can ever have an opinion that isn't colored by his hatred.

i used to dismiss him, but he is a pretty smart guy. but i still can't stand him.

Well, baseball was my whole life. Nothing's ever been as fun as baseball. -Mickey Mantle

by NumberSeven on Aug 24, 2007 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nope

Go back and read his chats and blogs. He has been saying that the Yanks are one of the best teams in baseball all season, even back when they were performing poorly

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

no i know that

it is just that everything is tinged with his haterade. even a compliment from him winds up feeling like and insult

Well, baseball was my whole life. Nothing's ever been as fun as baseball. -Mickey Mantle

by NumberSeven on Aug 24, 2007 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Humberto TJ Sanchez

is a much better candidate for the pen. He has a less complete arsenal so he is better suited for the pen.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then think about

Ohlendorf, Whelan, Horne, and White. They've all the got the makings of good pieces behind a homegrown rotation.
Oh, yeah... Chris Britton's still got a 4:1 K:BB ratio.

Not saying that all those guys would be closers, certainly not at the level we're used to, but I think the last few years have shown the bridge to be just as important as the closer.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 24, 2007 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fact is,

none of us know how well IPK, Sanchez, and even Hughes and Joba will do up here.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 2:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Uh, what?

"I say keep Chamberlain in the pen, feed him whatever the sox fed Papelbon and spend some money on a free-agent starter."

You mean the thing that made his shoulder go out last August/September?

This is a ridiculous debate started by someone who clearly doesn't see the larger picture. JB Cox, Humberto Sanchez, and Marc Malancon are all recovering from elbow ligament surgery of some type or another. They are all viable bullpen candidates. Cox has the potential to be the best setup guy in the league, a la Scot Sheilds for the past few years. Sanchez and Melancon both throw gas and each have a good or decent secondary offering.

Before you make these ruminations on Joba, you should really be familiar with the rest of the organization.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Aug 24, 2007 2:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Powerhouse returns

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We've been waiting

for you to show up and straighten things out.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 24, 2007 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good call on Horne before

Just read an interview with him that says he'd be more than willing to convert to the pen if it helped him get to the bigs.

If he adds the kind of velocity Ohlendorf did with the switch, he'd be sick. Finding his control this year has made a world of difference. Unfortunately, stamina is still an issue for him, and at 24, it's not a certainty that he can build it to a 200-inning level. And that's when you say "hey, Alan, how'd you like to cut out all but two pitches from your arsenal?"

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Aug 24, 2007 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shit, and I completely forgot about Whelan

He's been sic since they moved him back to the bullpen.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Aug 24, 2007 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Powerhouse returns!

Well, you came and got me out of Riveraveblues. I want to say its a privellege to be back. I'll be talking to you all soon.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh my goodness gracious!

by matthaggs on Aug 24, 2007 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

100th post!!!! BOO YAH!

"It's great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Aug 24, 2007 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hey Chris...

You started a pretty good thread...this will get us in the mood for beating up the Tigers tonight. You got any ideas about middle relief? Maybe you should hold off on that til the next off day. I saw the comment about Schill/Unit being able to dominate. Well they did, but both of them had years of proven MLB experience when that (unfortunately) happened.
One thing I worry about is Mo breaking down now. If we are still in a race and lose Mo, I gotta believe Joba is our closer. So even if its by default in an injury, and we are still in a race, file the Joba rules and he closes just as often as we would use Mo.

Oh those bases on balls. Can anyone here throw strikes???

by mickey07 on Aug 24, 2007 4:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bless you,

my son!

by chrisNYY on Aug 24, 2007 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The most important factor in the Joba question is.

What does Joba want?

These are players, not chess men.

Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical(Yogi)

by Cbeck3 on Aug 24, 2007 4:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No, that is not a factor at all

Something about inmates running the asylum.

He'll do as he's told to do.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Aug 24, 2007 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree MG

He should get a shot at starting if he wants to start. He gets told to do something else only if he cannot cut it at what he wants to do.

You can ask a player to do something to solve a situation, that's a season decision, not a carreer decision.

Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical(Yogi)

by Cbeck3 on Aug 24, 2007 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's not how it works

His career decision was to play baseball. Until he has six years of service time, that's the only decision he'll really get to make.

He should do whatever the Yankees tell him to do. Because he has zero other options.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Aug 24, 2007 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sweet Christ

Are you paid a commission by Kleenex or what? Each day you seem to out-sappy yourself. Until he is a free agent, the Yanks could make him do what the fuck they tell him to do.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hahah,

so true. Cbeck also watches Dr. Phil every night to get close to his emotional side.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You ever been on a team?

Coaches tell you what the situation is. Then they tell you what they think is best for you to do to help the team. Then they ask you.

Believe me.

Joba will be asked.

Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical(Yogi)

by Cbeck3 on Aug 24, 2007 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He will

do whatever they tell him. I'm sure Doug M wants to play every day, but they won't play him because of that.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That is not comparable

IT is like a position change. They may tell him he has to change to be in the majors, but I bet they will not.

Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical(Yogi)

by Cbeck3 on Aug 24, 2007 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

The team is going to tell the player whats best for the team. Joba wants to stay in the majors. He will want to do what the Yankees want him to do. He is a yes man at this point in his career.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They can force him

They would force a marginal player.

They will ask him what he wants to do.

Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical(Yogi)

by Cbeck3 on Aug 24, 2007 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

BJ Upton

was a #1 pick in the draft who wanted to be a shortstop. Last time I checked, he was TB's CFer. This kumbaya shit might work on the View, but Sweet Christ it makes you sound ridiculous. In your view of the Yanks, Torre goes around and gives a gold star to each player after they do well so they can hang it in their cubbies.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I already

know the response. You can't compare that since its a position player.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Besides

TB isn't committed to emotional needs of its players. I wonder if Oprah's couch is big enough for the entire front office to sit?

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Different

Turned out to be a AAA shortstop and a big league outfielder.

Joba is a big leaguer either way.

Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical(Yogi)

by Cbeck3 on Aug 24, 2007 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The reason he turned out that way

is because TB told him to switch. That is the bottom line. It may not be the touchy feely way that you love, but that is how it happened and that is how it should have happened. They might be high paid, but they are still employees.

On a side note, please tell me you have picked up the Edwar jersey. Considering how much he cries, he has to be your all-time favorite player, right?

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Papelbon

told the Red Sox he wanted to be a reliever.
It's not inconceivable that Joba could do the same thing.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 24, 2007 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That was

in sprin training after all the other candidates to close were awful.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And if we have a spring

filled with Bruney walking the park, Farnsworth being Farnsworth, and another Ron Villone signing we won't be sweating?
I'm not saying it's likely- he trained to be a starter up to now- but he's important enough to the Yankees long term in any role that if started saying to the media he wants to stay in the pen I can understand how the FO would buckle.

He'd better be a starter though.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 24, 2007 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only

way I can see him being in the pen is as a closer, not a set up guy. That won't be happening anytime soon with Mo probably here for another 2.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hahaha

pfisty is the best at this shit.

by Clutch like Leyritz on Aug 24, 2007 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you think

this asked Mo what he wanted to do? They told him if you want to stay in the majors it will be as a reliever. Unless it hurts him physicaly, he will be told to start

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 24, 2007 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right but Joba's special

He's a big leaguer either way.

It will all change if he starts and isn't successful. We know he can relieve.

Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical(Yogi)

by Cbeck3 on Aug 24, 2007 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Played in high school

And I was told to play second base. I didn't want to, but unfortunately my agent couldn't persuade our coach to change his mind. I am not saying that they won't consult with Joba, but the bottom line decision will come from the organization. Your inference that the team somehow needed Joba's approval is simply horseshit.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't say they need his approval.

I meant that they would not want to force him.

They will ask.

Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical(Yogi)

by Cbeck3 on Aug 24, 2007 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course they might ask

But the ultimate decision will come down to what is best for the club, even if they have to drag him out of the bullpen kicking and screaming.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The decision does come down to the club

but that does not take away from the fact that it would be stupid to make him a reliever. A staff ace (which Joba has the potential to become) is worth a hell of a lot more than even the best closer (Just ask Mo after he takes a gander at Rocket.)

Mo wasn't exactly lights out as a starter so moving him to the pen was not a big deal. Just look at Atlanta who made Smoltz a closer out of necessity. He is back to being their best starter now because that is harder to find. In the same way, the Red Sox wanted to move Papelbon back into the rotation but couldn't because of his health and the fact that they had no one even remotely capable of closing.

Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Aug 24, 2007 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course

That is the bigger ultimate point. It would be a retarded decision, but one that would still ultimately rest with the club nonetheless.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 24, 2007 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There are a whole pile of young arms

Thinking you know who is going to be the rotation in the future is an illusion.

The Mets thought they were set for a decade when they had a young troup led by Isrinhausen. Injuries and disappointments came and they got almost nothing.

And it is too soon to write off Rasner, Kaststens etc etc. There may be another big league pitcher in that group somewhere.

Hughes, Joba, IPK are prospects as starters, not stars. I hope 2 of them become very good starters. I HOPE.

Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical(Yogi)

by Cbeck3 on Aug 24, 2007 5:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The pitching experience

he is getting now will pay dividends for Joba...whether he starts or closes. In fact, I've written earlier, that it would be a better break-in situation for the other kids like Clippard, Wright and the others to come up and pitch in relief for a few games, then start. Think about it...you can tell a kid who has shown good stuff at AA to just go out and throw an inning or two...get used to the crowd, major league hitters, you only face hitters once, throw as hard as you want. The mental pressure these kids faced STARTING games with little or no experience was overwhelming. Maybe we'll see this with the September call-ups.

Oh those bases on balls. Can anyone here throw strikes???

by mickey07 on Aug 24, 2007 5:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs