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How the Hell Are They Still in This?

I've been thinking about those Wild Card leading Mariner, and how they've defied all my expectations.

Star-divide

Regulars to the forum know that I put a lot of faith in run differentials (the difference between a team's runs scored and runs allowed). They give you a quick and simple way to evaluate a team's pitching and defense, and their offense. Using a simple formula, differentials can be used to calculate an expected winning percentage.

But there are flaws to this approach, too. Differentials assume that all runs are equal. We all know that a single run in the 10th inning of a tie game is worth more than average.

The Mariners are 18 games over .500. We'd expect them to be only 1 game over .500.

Baseball Prospectus says that the Mariners are among the worst defensive teams in the major leagues, turning only 68.5% of ball in play into outs.

Seattle's offense doesn't seem especially impressive either but they rank 6th in the AL in OBP, and 4th in SLG. Last year's Tigers played a similar combination of OPS into a pennant.

But Seattle's pitching is nowhere close to what the Tigers had... is it?
Their starters have an unbelievably bad 1.552 WHIP with only 5.8 K/9.
Their relievers have a pedestrian 1.393 WHIP with a better 7.2 K/9.
So how have they won?

They have the best closer in baseball. They have the best setup tandem you hear nothing about in Sherril and Morrow .

Those three men (and when they are used) are the difference. In games the Mariners lose, they lose by an average of 4.057 runs. In games the Mariners win, they win by an average of 3.366 runs. Over a full season that's a huge swing.

We've talked about how bad starters aren't always bad, but inconsistent. Imagine a team staffed by Randy Johnsons and Mike Mussinas- you never know which version is going to show up. But that staff of inconsistent starters happens to be paired with the best bullpen in baseball. If the good version shows up, they make the most of it and win that game.

And the big question: (drum roll, please)
Can they keep this up for the last month of the season?

I'm worried that they can- in which case we'll soon be fighting the Angels for the wild card. For the record, in the last six years, only three teams have managed to finish the season ten or more games off the expected record: the 2006 Indians (under), 2005 D-backs (over), and the 2004 Yankees (over).

0 recs  |  Comment 28 comments

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Sammy Sosa
Tonights box:  Sosa, 0-0

by LongBeachDave on Aug 24, 2007 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sammy Sosa
After 2 games, box score on Sosa:

0-0   0 runs batted in

by LongBeachDave on Aug 24, 2007 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not just those three guys in the bullpen
It's also Sean Green:3.23 ERA, 6.96 K/9, 3.23 GB/FB
Ryan-Rowland Smith:3.47 ERA, 10.41 K/9, 3.38 K/BB
Eric O'Flaherty:3.48 ERA

by Goose on Aug 23, 2007 10:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The rest of the bullpen is certainly good
but those two guys (excepting Putz) would be the best relievers in a lot of bullpens.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 23, 2007 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah. JJ and Sherrill are certianly the cream
of the crop that's for sure.

Morrow can be dominating at times, but his control disappears alot of the time too. He also pretty much just has one pitch, a crazy awesome fastball. Though he has flashed a good split from time to time.

Green is actually higher on the depth chart IMO as far as goodness. He had the one bad outing against the Twins last week that saw his ERA rise a half a point, but his good K rates combined with his crazy good groundball rates have made him arguably our most reliable non JJ reliever.

Oh and the M's also have Mark Lowe who should be up when rosters expand. This systems spits out good relievers like they are going out of style.

by Goose on Aug 23, 2007 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you think McLaren
manages his pen especially well, or is he just blessed with a slew of great relievers?
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 23, 2007 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The latter.
For all the shit we gave Hargrove, he was fantastic at managing a bullpen, one of the best I've ever seen.

Sadly enough, most of us want Hargrove back. McClaren's dumbassery is astounding.

by Goose on Aug 23, 2007 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They have been
playing horse shit teams lately.  

by Mr Farley on Aug 23, 2007 10:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Look who's talking.
Who did you guys play from the AS game to early August? All sub .500 teams. That's how you're in this in the first place.
Visiting Mariners fan.

by Coach Owens on Aug 23, 2007 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I presume
you are a Mariners fan.  If you really looked at the Mariners, they have a great bullpen.  Thats it.  Its not a very good team and they have been extremely lucky to be where they are.  Hopefully, the luck will even out.  
Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 23, 2007 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it says "Visiting Mariners Fan"
So yeah, he might be a Mariners fan.

Dude, that guy did not say that the Mariners were a good team. All he said was the Yankees have been playing just as poor teams as the Mariners have.

He didn't say anything about the staff, the line-up, and he didn't even point out how awesome the bullpen is.
 

by Will D on Aug 23, 2007 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks
for the heads up jack ass.  He came on here and saying how the Yanks are in the race.  I pointed out how it makes no sense how the Mariners are in any position to be near a playoff spot.  The starters beside Felix are not good (and even he isn't consistent), hitting is average at best, bullpen is good.  Not a good team, just lucky.
Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 23, 2007 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the Mariners can keep winning we'll
have to catch the Sox or the Angels. SEA and LAA have 7 games left with each other.  We have 6 with the Redsox.

The Mariner sched is really tough. LAA 7 NYY 3 DET 3 Clev 5 Oakland 6.  Yipe. 24 against over .500 teams

The Angels add Clev 6 Oakland 6 to their Seatle 7. 19 against over .500 teams. I think this is advantage Angels, since they are already ahead.

Boston has NYY 6 Oakland 2 MIN 4 12 against over .500.

The Yanks have Det 3, Sea 3, Boston 6 12 against over .500 teams. We'll need some help to catch Boston. I think the schedule favors them.

If we just keep winning, and we have the Schedule to do that, we'll squeak in somewhere.

Needless to say the upcoming Detroit and Boston series are huge.  Our next 6 days have 6 of our 12 remaining games against over .500 teams,  GO YANKEES!

Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical(Yogi)

by Cbeck3 on Aug 23, 2007 11:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Please ignore Coach
Mariner fans hate him
Dave Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks Blog

by Addicted to Quack on Aug 24, 2007 12:01 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Seconded
This is a very intelligent post/thread, it's been getting kudos on LookoutLanding.

No need to let Coach Owens' status as an annoying troll spoil what's otherwise a good dialogue.

Visiting M's fan

by thejew4u on Aug 24, 2007 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 24, 2007 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry jscape2000.
It was just that one guy.
Visiting Mariners fan.

by Coach Owens on Aug 24, 2007 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't worry about
Stick around until pfisty and StrappedYankee go at it again if you want to see fireworks.  And they're both Yankee fans.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 24, 2007 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mariners leading Wild Card
This can't really be happening...we aren't that good, we had a manager leave in the middle of the season, our starting pitching is average, though Weaver has been great the last 2 weeks...and except for Ichiro and maybe Beltre, we have no superstars on this team...but hey...it feels great.  I'm not worried how we do against the good teams, we seem to rise to the occasion..we have decent records against Detroit, NY, Boston and the Angels...but losing 4 in a row to Texas in July?  All by one run?  What is up with that?  If we are still anywhere near the Wild Card after these 13 more games on the road in the next 16 games, I will be very surprised...but it sure has been fun.

by LongBeachDave on Aug 24, 2007 1:56 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Weaver has actually been quite good for the
last few months. Every since he came off the DL. He's regained the velocity he showed in last year's playoffs which has allowed him to be serviceable.

by Goose on Aug 24, 2007 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Side note
A very smart M's SABRdweeb named Matt came up with a variation of Pythag which adds some weight for runs scored in close games vs. blowouts. He keeps track of all 30 teams with daily updates - and whose formula is closer, his or standard Pythag - on another M's blog (DOV). Right now he's up 18-10-2 in head-to-head.
Here's a link to the tracker's specific thread. He's not quite as high on the Yanks as Pythag, but still has them 7 games over Seattle at the end of September.
Visiting M's fan

by thejew4u on Aug 24, 2007 2:27 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I would
Because that's exactly the sort of thing that interests me.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 24, 2007 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Truthfully though,
the Yankees scare me. Their bullpen and rotation is all right, but they have a terrific offense. I really hope the Angels get swept by Toronto.
Visiting Mariners fan.

by Coach Owens on Aug 24, 2007 2:51 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

angels fans input
BOTH seattle and new york scare me. new york for obvious reasons and seattle is the complete opposite, i dont know how or why they are so good, i just have to tip my hat to both teams, good luck down the stretch, hopefully all of us will make it and give boston on early off season

by Sorbo182 on Aug 24, 2007 6:26 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Amen to that
Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical(Yogi)

by Cbeck3 on Aug 24, 2007 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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