Is Steinbrenner's Absence A Positive or Negative?

by chrisNYY on Aug 22, 2007 6:53 PM EDT

Saw an article somewhere (the Post maybe?) that the last time the Yankees didn't have Steinbrenner meddling in day-to-day affairs (the early 90s, when he was suspended from baseball), they stocked up on the great farmhands--Pettitte, Jeter, Bernie, Mariano--who made the Yanks so dominant in the 90s.

Now that he's getting on and letting Cashman run the operation, we have the remarkable comparison of Joba reminding us of a young Clemens VERSUS Eric Gagne blowing saves in Boston. In his prime, George would NOT have been able to resist Gagne--or at the least, some pick-up with more cachet than Betemit.

Clearly, Cashman has been able to to stock up on a pitching rotation (Wang/Chamberlain/Hughes/Kennedy/maybe even Sanchez) that could power the Yankees for the next 10 years BECAUSE George hasn't been trading the farm for the latest over-the-hill batting champ or Cy Young winner.

The question is: Is George's absence from the trading table outweighed by the lack of immediacy in the Yankee's organization? I'm all for patience with the young talent, but there doesn't seem to be the organizational fire in the belly the old George provided.

I love Torre for what he did in the 90s, for his grace under pressure, etc. But I gotta believe the old George would have replaced him in June with Girardi or Mattingly. Good thing? Bad thing?

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Um

the payroll, including Clemens, is going to be over $200 million again.
They're on pace to score just shy of 1000 runs, a +150 run differencial (best in baseball), and have made up 10 games in two months. With nearly a quarter of the season still to play (36 games).
How much more fire in the belly do you want?

* Moose excluded

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 22, 2007 7:08 PM EDT reply actions

Not to mention the fact that

George's "fire the manager" strategy never really worked. Billy wasn't fired in 1978 because the team was losing. It was personal. The team probably would have won anyway. They did not win again until Joe came aboard.

Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Aug 22, 2007 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Good point....

by anaconda on Aug 22, 2007 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions

The devil's advocate

would say that firing Showalter worked pretty good.

But I hear what you're saying.

by matthaggs on Aug 22, 2007 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Well...

Signing Clemens, which appeared to be George's doing, was a LOT of money to pay for a # 4 or 5 starter. The fire in the belly w/ the Yanks seems to be coming more from Chamberlain and the new guys.

I'm playing devil's advocate a little--I don't really pine for the days of George. But there's no Paul O'Neil sparkplug in the veteran crew, throwing helmets, so George's emotional presence seems even more absent.

Fire in the belly is demonstrated by winning close/have-to-win games like Monday's, not beating the Royals, Blue Jays, Orioles, Devil Rays, etc.

by chrisNYY on Aug 22, 2007 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions

But

do you think a helmet throwing Paul O'Neill would be the difference maker on this squad?
Didn't the championship Yankees get beat in important games during the regular season?

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 22, 2007 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Sure...

They got beat in important games, but they won more of them than they lost. And they had a sense that they were going to pull it out, no matter what the odds were, how far they were down in the later innings.

I'm certainly not giving George credit for that, but
something's missing with this group.

Of course, the pitching ain't what it used to be. Cashman's plan just needs time, and I'm willing to buy into the Wang/Hughes/Chamberlain/Kennedy core. Next year.

For now, somebody needs to kick over a water cooler or this season's lost.

by chrisNYY on Aug 22, 2007 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions

What?

How do you know what is going on in the locker room? How do you know who is passionate inside the clubhouse? The point is, none of us knows. We all loved Oneill for his intensity, it showed to the fans he cared. But we don't know who does and doesn't care with the Yanks (except for Mo, Jeter, Posda, Pettite, Clemens)

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 22, 2007 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Small sample size

but Joba can probably be added to that list.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 22, 2007 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Doubt It

I never said anybody doesn't care on the Yankees. They all care tremendously. Jeter, A-Rod, Posada, Pettite, Clemens--all of these guys are huge competitors. Absolutely no doubt about that. But you can't tell me that there's a significant sparkplug in the clubhouse that we don't see in 9 innings of close-ups on YES. It's so great to see Duncan and Chamberlain getting pumped up precisely because we haven't seen that in awhile. I suppose that Duncan and Chamberlain's clubhouse demeanor could be singificantly different than their dugout behavior. But I doubt it.

by chrisNYY on Aug 23, 2007 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions

So who were these

rah rah guys on the Cardinals last year? the White Sox in 05?

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 23, 2007 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions

Ozzie

comes to mind with the White Sox. Don't know the NL.

Pierzynski's no shrinking violet either.

by chrisNYY on Aug 23, 2007 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions

I saw George

on The Bronx is Burning, talking about '77. He didn't look too bad...The reports make him sound like he's senile...

by John Amato on Aug 22, 2007 8:50 PM EDT reply actions

I am grateful to George

before him the Yanks were mired in the dark ages. A corporation like CBS would never be the same as a "hands-on" owner. Granted, he could be annoying at times, but always had The Yankees success in the forefront and not as an afterthought for the ledger.

Lets play Billy Ball!

by StrappedYankee on Aug 22, 2007 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions

A positive ...

So long as he keeps breathing. It's obvious he's mellowed--probably more passionate about taking a diaperless dump than what the Yankees are doing. But I'm concerned about who's going to follow King George? I've read some things that have me concerned. Will his son/daughter/son in law/whomever have any of the competitive fire that fueled the Yankees resurgence?

Or, will they siphon funds and leave the Yankees to fall into disrepair similar to when George bought the team in 73?

That's my concern.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Aug 23, 2007 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions