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What to do if/when Giambi gets back

We have had some discussion about Giambi getting close to coming back and whether that's a good thing or not.

Meanwhile, it remains to be seen if he is actually as close to returning as he thinks he is.

July 26, 2007 - Associated Press

Manager Joe Torre said both he and GM Brian Cashman thought DH Jason Giambi's prediction that he would be ready to rejoin the team next week might be overly optimistic. Giambi has been out since May 30 with torn tissue in his left foot and is set to start a minor league rehab assignment on Friday with Class-A Tampa. ``I just talked to Cash about that, and he, like I, thought that was a little quick,'' Torre said. ``I don't know who communicated that to Jason. I haven't.''

But I'm curious to see what we think we could actually do with him when he does return to the team.

Star-divide

I bring this up because when you look at it, there aren't many places where he fits into the lineup (at least at first blush).  

Here is Giambi's line from the beginning of the season.  It is not good enough in my opinion to warrant plopping him in to the 5th or 6th hole in the order right away, but it is good enough to warrant giving him some at bats to prove that we can move him into one of those slots if he puts up some numbers first.  I'm going to try to list a set of assumptions:

  1. Giambi is limited to dh, and is a superior option over Damon at dh.
  2. Andy Phillips should be our regular 1b as long as he bats in the 7, 8 or 9 hole.
  3. Melky Cabrera is far superior to Johnny Damon in cf, and measurably superior to Damon at the plate.
  4. Melky might actually be our best option at leadoff (please see his splits when batting leadoff; to summarize: 80 AB .275 BA .379 OBP .375 SLG .754 OPS) - I know it's a small sample set, but it is encouraging.
  5. Hideki Matsui is far superior to Damon at the plate and is at worst, only slightly worse than Damon in lf, and at best equal with him in lf.
  6. Joe Torre will continue to insist upon his alternating L and R batters in the order (I don't wish to have an argument about whether or not this is a good idea, I'm simply stating that Torre will be Torre and this is a batting order philosophy he is very unlikely to break with).
  7. Historically, Robinson Cano does his best hitting in the #7 hole.
So...that's a lot of setup, I know, but where does that leave us?  Consequently, I'm interested in hearing other considerations that I may have left out in my set of assumptions.

WHERE DO WE BAT THIS GUY?

Ninth.

It ought to fit with all the previous assumptions and I think it even leaves some flexibility in the lineup late in games (more on that later).  Here is my proposed order (in case it's not obvious the extra letter after the batters' position is their batting preference: left, right or switch):

  1. Cabrera cf s
  2. Jeter ss r
  3. Abreu rf l
  4. Rodgriguez 3b r
  5. Matsui lf l
  6. Posada ca s
  7. Cano 2b l
  8. Phillips 1b r
  9. Giambi dh l
At least until he proves he can really rake like we all hope he can.  Admittedly, he won't have any real protection between Phillips and Cabrera, but he'd be a guy who can likely get on base (more than Damon at this point, at least) and not eat up outs.  If he draws the customary 7th or 8th inning walk in a close game there is a simple solution: pinch run with Damon and you don't need to burn two bench players to replace him because you can leave Damon at dh.

The biggest problem I see has been Torre's historical reluctance to sit guys with big contracts (ie Damon in this case).

Poll
Which Giambi will we see when he returns?
Giambi from April: .322 BA .404 OBP .517 SLG .921 OPS
5 votes
Giambi from May: .177 BA .350 OBP .323 SLG .673 OPS
2 votes
Somewhere in between
18 votes

25 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 15 comments

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Comments

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Nicely done
You use the code well and put together a really nice post...There's no way Joe bats Giambi 9th...If he comes back and hits, he is a guy that will make pitchers work to get him out, another pain in the neck..a walk machine, power hitter...if he's healthy...I don't trust him....But if he starts hitting, he'll be #5, 6. I don't think Torre will make the same mistake as last year when he foced Sheffield in the lineup...
I hope not anyway...

by John Amato on Jul 27, 2007 2:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks
For the compliment on my post.

I agree that it's very unlikely that Torre would actually follow my reasoning here.  

But is it flawed?

If he comes back and hits, then he can be moved up.  But we can't trust him to be that guy right away...in the meantime, batting him late in the order would be a way to avoid forcing him into the lineup a la Sheffield last year...

by losjanks on Jul 27, 2007 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see what you're thinking BUT
This is Jason Giambi.  If he is healthy he should be in the section behind Arod somewhere.

Melky
Jete
El Comedulces
Arod
Matsui (as long as he keeps hitting)
Jorge
Giambi
Phillips
Cano

I do not claim this is better than your idea, but Torre is more likely to do something like this.

Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical(Yogi)

by Cbeck3 on Jul 27, 2007 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

come dulces?
eats candy?

by beantownbosoxh8er on Jul 27, 2007 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Some of us object to
Senor hustle on a ethnic slur basis.

If you want to insult him call him something non-hispanic.

Given his adventures with corners, how about Harvey Wallbanger.

I do not think he deserves insults at all.

Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical(Yogi)

by Cbeck3 on Jul 30, 2007 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sweet Christ that is fucking retarded
He is Hispanic. Hence, the term Senor actually makes more sense than calling him Mr. Hustle. (which admittedly also has a nice ring to it). See, it is the ironic inclusion of the term "hustle" in his nickname that is the key. The senor just makes it more culturally appropriate. Blower-san is the same way.  
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Jul 30, 2007 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't
call Rocky the itallian stallion either.
Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Jul 30, 2007 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tell me about it
This redefines "hypersensitive political correctness."
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Jul 30, 2007 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Giambi behind A-rod
..not a lot of pitchers are willing to walk anyone to get to Giambi. That helps Arod get better pitches to pummel over the fence. Despite his lackluster performance of late, Giambi is still dangerous and can work counts when he's not hitting. Put Giambi fifth.. then Matsui.. then Posada.. That's a lot of power between the three and could be a devastating trio.

by BobbyNYC on Jul 29, 2007 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But
Alex has said (and studies have proved) that hitters actually hit better when there's someone in front of them making the pitcher throw more pitches in the inning.
I'd bat Jeter leadoff, Abreu second, Giambi third, Arod fourth.  And put Damon in the nine-hole.
But Joe would never let Johnny hit anything but leadoff.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Jul 29, 2007 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damon deserves the 9 hole
he will not stop sucking these days.

by Greenfuzz on Jul 29, 2007 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope more readers
will write diaries like this,,,I'll front page the good ones always...but I do disagree with your logic...Giambi, when healthy is just too dangerous to bat 9th...I'm sorry i didn't FP this one,,,I missed it..so please keep it up!

by John Amato on Jul 27, 2007 4:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It is a very impressive post, but
I just learned excel last week.

by Mr Farley on Jul 27, 2007 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is no argument
That if Giambi can hit .265-.270 with a dinger every 15-20 AB and an OBP of around .400 that he doesn't belong batting 5th or 6th (maybe even 3rd?).  That would be some welcome punch and protection for A-Rod.

I'll even concede the possibility that he might be capable of exceeding those types of numbers for stretches here and there.

BUT

There is no way Giambi comes back and hits like that right out of the gate.  Even if he's totally healthy and rehabbed from his injury he is going to need some time to adjust to Major League pitching, get his bat speed up etc.  He has been out since May 30th so he is going to need a mini-spring training to hopefully get where we think he is capable of being when healthy.

I just don't see how he could get slotted any higher than 7-8-9 at first, without potentially upsetting the balance the way Sheff did last year.  And given all the other conditions I listed (which, by the way, no one has even attempted to debunk) I think it would be wise to start him off in the 9 hole or perhaps 7th as Cbeck suggested in an earlier comment.

Thanks again for the props on the overall quality of the original post, I hope to keep them coming.

by losjanks on Jul 28, 2007 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Giambi ...
Until he proves he won't break down again, and can maintain a .400 OBP, and swat with some power, I wouldn't bat him much higher than 6. I actually like the idea of Jeter leading off, followed by Abreu, Arod, Matsui, Posada, Giambino, Cano, Cabrera (Damon), Phillips.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jul 30, 2007 3:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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