Torre's Mistakes

by viasistina on Apr 23, 2007 11:14 AM EDT Comment 15 comments

I am starting to get down on Joe. His main job of keeping Steinbrenner off of the players is no longer a major concern. How about some sane field management? Can we stop Bullpen bingo and ask the starters to go 6-7 innings instead of the 5 that everyone seems to think is OK?
Where the hell was Abreu playing when Ortiz's fly ball "plopped" behind him for a cheap double instead of a routine sac fly? Doesnt anyone in the dugout pay attention? He did the same thing again last night and gave up a ground rule double. I guess we want to play Ortiz shallow to make sure he doesnt get a cheap dump single.
How come the first baseman wasnt guarding the line in the 8th inning like every little leaguer is taught? Instead we give up a back backing triple.
What bonehead decided to pinch run your only outfielder in reserve for the DH on Friday night? What was Thompson supposed to do that Giambi couldnt with a 6-2 lead??
Hey, didnt Josh Phelps win the 1st base job in spring training? Everytime I look up, the washed up Mientkiewicz in the lineup. Tell me about "Yankee character". Isnt Mientkiewicz the guy who stole the baseball from MLB and the Bosox and then claimed he lost it and then sold it back to someone? Reminds me of Ron Rivera who stole one of Jeter's gloves. I know its early but the roster is screwed up. One more thing--Mike Myers cant get Ortiz out, isnt that what he was signed to do. Henn got him out. Myers should be given his release and fill his slot with a decent position player. Who is making these decision??

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How frighteningly

inarticulate. I'm actually impressed.
Torre made a stupid decision with a 4 run lead, but everything else went wrong to make that decision look stupid. The tough thing is that the Yankees failled to hold a lead in each game. So we look at the bullpen, and realize that the real issue is the starting rotation, which is beyond Torre's control (not that he couldn't do better, pfisty, but quality starts from our starters would help hide Torre's faults).
Proctor has appeared in 12 games, Vizcaino 11, Myers 10, Bruney and Henn in 9, Farnsworth in 8, Rivera in only 6. This tells me that Joe is spreading the workload around far better than he normally does.
The pen has pitched 70.2 innings and allowed 26 ER. (This counts Pettitte's work). 3.31 ERA.
The 7 starters have pitched 85.1 innings and allowed 48 ER. 5.06 ERA. (as a note, how good has Pettitte been? 5ER in 25.1 IP; Mo and Farnsworth have also allowed 5 ER).
If you had gotten quality starts from your starters they would have pitched 102 innings by now at a 4.5 ERA. That's 15 innings of work less for the pen, or the roster spots of Proctor, Bean, and Britton.
But let's issolate the problem even farther. In the 6 starts made by the scrubs (Rasner, Wright, Karstens) they've average for 4.1 IP and 3.3 ER. That's an extra inning and two-thirds the pen has had to bail out each game.
Wang is coming back. Mussina is coming back. Pavano has yet to throw, so I say call up Phil Hughes cause he's got to better than Karstens.
The problems will not continue. We'll be fine.

We're reaching the point where you can either be a truly dedicated, state-of-the-art fan or you can have a life. Take your pick.

by jscape2000 on Apr 23, 2007 12:22 PM EDT reply actions

I agree with jscape

That rambling blur of retarded questions is a train wreck from the first word. Yikes.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Apr 23, 2007 12:34 PM EDT reply actions

It's Juan Rivera, but who cares

My only beef with Torre is one of serious concern. Last year he all but destroyed what we had of a bullpen by throwing them multiple innings virtually everyday.

This off season I was thrilled when we actually got some pen depth to compliment a near dead Proctor, Rivera, Farnsworth. But alas, it didn't last. Rather than overusing Proctor and Farnsworth like he did in '06, Torre's hell-bent on overusing both again--and the new guys that were added! If this pace keeps up, we won't have a pen come June 20.

Torre has no sense of how to handle a pitching staff. He's the opposite of Billy Martin who demanded his pitchers throw 8-9 everytime out. True, we've had some poor pitching from our rookie corps (or corpse depending), but he needs to back off on his demands from the pen. It will kill us.

I too am hopeful that Wang, Mussina, possibly Clemens and even Pavano will retun and throw deeper into games--like maybe 7 or an occasional 8???

by Ronster22 on Apr 23, 2007 12:34 PM EDT reply actions

Um, actually

It was Ruben Rivera.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Apr 23, 2007 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Again with the discounted coke ...

My bad. Just for that I am imposing Sheryl Crow's "use only one-square of toilet paper" to save the planet punishment. Apologies.

by Ronster22 on Apr 23, 2007 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions

No problem

just ask for more yayo and less baking soda next time!

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Apr 23, 2007 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions

It's so hard ...

to find a quality dealer around here. I will note the advice. As always You Be the Man.

by Ronster22 on Apr 23, 2007 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Frightening Inarticulate? Reuben, Ron..who cares?

And you are who? Gore Vidal? Give it a rest. A couple of rushed typos (I got a job), and a mis-identified outfielder and you're frightened? As Bill Parcells once said " I am only afraid of snakes, spiders and the IRS." Hell, I spelled Mientkeiwicz correctly twice. How about addressing the questions, what was Joe thinking by running for Giambi leading 6-2 and stripping his bench of outfielders? What was Abreu thinking by playing Ortiz is shallow right field?

by viasistina on Apr 23, 2007 2:17 PM EDT reply actions

A few points

Cashman didn't really give Torre any sort of identifiable bench so any mismanagement is really hypothetical. His hands are tied by the GM's roster mistakes.

Newsflash on Abreu: he isn't a good outfielder and doesn't really hustle in the field.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Apr 23, 2007 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Musta switched to decaf green tea

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Apr 23, 2007 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Testy...

You were right and I was wrong on Ruben Rivera.
As for Man-cave-itch. I don't have a freakin' clue.

Abreu: Great bat. Great eye. Great fit. As for his fielding??? I'm less than impressed. I thought his arm was better than what I've seen. And like Pfisty, I don't see a tremendous amount of hustle, either.

by Ronster22 on Apr 23, 2007 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Joe

Wanted a chance to score the run on a double. It's a gamble I would never make, but he explain his thought process in the post game interview.
He still had Cairo to play the two remaining innings if anything happened. You can't always have an extra guy on the bench.
Abreu has some range, he's just terrified of walls. It doesn't surprise me he was as far away from the wall as possible. Fenway has a huge right field. He probably figured that if it was going to be over his head it was likely gone.

We're reaching the point where you can either be a truly dedicated, state-of-the-art fan or you can have a life. Take your pick.

by jscape2000 on Apr 23, 2007 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions

I think Torre's got it half right...

but it's the other half that bugs me. I applaud him for being aggressive with a deep and talented bullpen. But my problem with the Yankee plan is they seemed hell-bent on limiting every reliever to 1 inning. By the time a guy warms up and gets into the game, he's used (some argue he's used just from warming up). Another 15-20 pitches isn't going to significantly effect that--used is used--and it'd let the bullpen share the load and some off days a lot more.

Cashman has given Torre his baubles, and dangnabbit, Torre's going to use them! So get Proctor out after two dominant batters and 9 pitches, so Myers can pitch to Ortiz with a 4 run lead! Now, that's managing!

If Zimmer were there, he'd of crazy-glued Torre's butt to the bench.

As for pinch-running, that was the stupidest bit of in-game managing this side of Dusty Baker. At the time, there were no out in the eighth, which means that, accounting for six outs, only 3 Yankees needed to reach base for Giambi's spot in the order to come up again. You don't pinch run for your DH there! Well, maybe Torre flunked 1st grade math.

by zukatesta on Apr 23, 2007 6:52 PM EDT reply actions

Score on a double?

"Wanted a chance to score the run on a double."

jscape, I know you said you don't agree, which makes you smart.

Let's dissect this rationale:

Chances for a double: I forget who was hitting/pitching, and I'm too lazy to look it up. Let's just say the average major leaguer raps about 25 doubles a year, in about 600 PAs...hell, I'm gonna be gracious and put the chance of a double at about 5%.

If the ball goes in the triangle, even Giambi's scoring. If the ball is off the monster, nobody is scoring. Maybe an OF gets near the ball, and Thompson needs to play it safe--then he's not scoring. Obviously, if the ball bounces off the 2-inch-high wall in right, nobody's scoring. So the chance for a double where Thompson's speed might make a difference? 2%?

In retrospect, what was the chance that Giambi's spot in the order would come up again? 3 Yankees needed to reach base in 2 innings. I dunno, 75%? 80%?

Somebody needs to pull Torre aside and explain to him that he needs to stop pinch running for Giambi and Posada. It may cost him a run or two, true. But the pinch running is costing them much more.

by zukatesta on Apr 23, 2007 7:01 PM EDT reply actions

Torre Again..

Josh Phelps is hitting the ball as hard as anyone so lets pinch hit Johnny Damon for him who is now 0-2 the past two nights with the bases loaded and I think was 0 for Fenway. Melky normally backs that up with either a double play or a strike out. Tonight, he choose strike out swinging.
Didnt you love another game of Bullpen Bingo?

by viasistina on Apr 23, 2007 11:11 PM EDT reply actions