The Mitchell Report (Open Thread)

by anaconda on Dec 13, 2007 1:46 PM EST in News Comment 55 comments

I figured the best way to handle this whole thing is to create a game thread-like forum because breaking news and updates are going to occur often the rest of the day.

The Mitchell Report will be posted on this thread as soon as it is officially released as well as any significant updates.

Update [2007-12-13 14:4:8 by anaconda]:

Here is the official report via MLB.com.

Update [2007-12-13 15:25:47 by anaconda]:

The Yankees have issued an official press release regarding the report. Very insightful.

Update [2007-12-13 17:54:0 by anaconda]:

ESPN has the full list of players and how they are linked to performance enhancing drugs in the report.

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jeez

did anyone see the end of the report? They have photo copies of the checks used by the players to pay for the steroids...wow.

Joe Torre. 1996-2007. He will be missed.

by goyankees on Dec 13, 2007 2:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

That's pretty solid evidence

While Peter Abraham thinks Radomski is just in it for himself, those are pretty damning.

In addition, I think it's fairly clear that Clemens and Pettitte did stuff, although Pettitte seems to have been an extremely limited case. Clemens was a much more regular user.

by PsiFighter37 on Dec 13, 2007 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As Buster Olney pointed out

the cancelled checks aren't quite the smoking gun they appear to be. Players write personal checks to clubhouse guys all the time. While most of these checks are probably for steroids, etc., there may not be a 100% correlation.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 13, 2007 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Quick list

I scanned the report quickly and came up with the following people mentioned- obviously with vastly different amounts of evidence concerning each:
Marvin Benard
Barry Bonds
Bobby Estalella
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Randy Velarde
Lenny Dykstra
David Segui
Larry Bigbie
Brian Roberts
Jack Cust
Tim Laker
Josias Manzanillo
Todd Hundley
Mark Carreon
Hal Morris
Matt Franco
Rondell White
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Chuck Knoblauch
Jason Grimsley
Greg Zaun
David Justice
FP Santangelo
Glenallen Hill
Mo Vaughn
Denny Neagle
Ron Villone
Ryan Franklin
Chris Donnels
Phil Hiatt
Todd Williams
Todd Pratt
Kevin Young
Mike Lansing
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Adam Piatt
Miguel Tejada
Jason Christiansen
Mike Stanton
Stephen Randolph
Jerry Hairston Jr
Paul Lo Duca
Adam Riggs
Bart Miadich
Fernando Vina
Kevin Brown
Eric Gagne
Mike Bell
Matt Herges
Gary Bennett, Jr
Jim Parque
Brendan Donnelly
Chad Allen
Jeff Williams
Howie Clark
Exacier "Nook" Logan
Daniel Naulty
Rick Ankiel
David Bell
Paul Byrd
Jose Canseco
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jose Guillen
Darren Holmes
Gary Matthews, Jr
John Rocker
Scott Schoenewies
Ismael Valdez
Matt Williams
Steve Woodard
Manny Alexander
Ken Caminiti
Mike Spinelli
Paxton Crawford

by SP on Dec 13, 2007 2:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

One positive...

After a quick scan it doesn't appear that any of the Yankee steroid users affected the dynasty. Pettitte didn't get involved until '01.

by mwilli on Dec 13, 2007 2:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The problem with the list

is that someone who may have tried it a few times versus regular user are not really differentiated.

Any alleged steroid use had no impact on the Yankee record. 26 and holding.

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Dec 13, 2007 2:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

It seems as though

several instances of steroid use were the result of players getting injured; doesn't seem motivated by trying to get a leg up on the competition.

by docgonzo on Dec 13, 2007 2:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Bullshit

Mitchell is biased. No Red Sox guys. Varitek is a user and was not named.

by BillyBobisdrunk on Dec 13, 2007 2:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

What about Mike Lowell?

Check him out in 2001 and now.

I submit Bill Mueller as well.

Nuke the whales. Save Phil Hughes!

by marcbouch9 on Dec 13, 2007 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Information sources?

I haven't read the report but I wonder if "missing" names might be attributable to who gave information to the investigation. There are a lot of Yankees because the investigation had a source inside the clubhouse. Maybe that wasn't true of all teams.

by TerraByte on Dec 14, 2007 8:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

worthless

wasn't it estimated that the investigation cost about $50 million and took 20 months?! that's it?!

half of the 400 pages are "steroids are bad" and the other half is just scanned pictures of checks.

the whole f-ing thing is a hilarious waste of money.

what is in the report that we didn't know already...geez...

by tombradylikesdudes on Dec 13, 2007 3:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Well...

that is pretty efficient as far as government spending goes. If you looked at some of the other checks the governmen has written, you would probably be more appalled than by this number.

"It's great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Dec 13, 2007 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the term

"pork barrel" comes to mind.

by tombradylikesdudes on Dec 13, 2007 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Reminds me of another investigation

that turned up a cigar and a semen-stained blue dress. Entertaining but of no consequence.

by TerraByte on Dec 14, 2007 8:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What I found most interesting

was the way front offices just spoke so honestly about it. The Dodgers sure were subtle with their internal player evaluations, huh?

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 13, 2007 3:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The Union did everything it could

to protect their own. I'm sick as a dog with a bad virus so I haven't been posting on PA, but as far as I can tell this is a garbage report...

by John Amato on Dec 13, 2007 3:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

A columnist from the Houston Chronicle

made a point worth thinking about.

Everyone knows Pettitte is a very private guy who doesn't like a lot of attention. It is not an inconceivable thought that he could elect to retire now and vanish from the public eye as McGwire did.

I sure hope not, but Pettitte is a different animal than most players and I could see it happening.

Just in case, Cashman may want to re-enter the Santana sweepstakes.

by anaconda on Dec 13, 2007 3:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Richard Justice

is trust worthy writer. Shit, I am worried now that Andy will retired now but he all ready signed the contract.

by BillyBobisdrunk on Dec 13, 2007 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not worried

Pettitte was hardly crushed in this report. He used HGH recovering from an elbow injury five years ago. Big fucking deal.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 13, 2007 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Justice and Houston

are just bitter than Andy won't be pitching for them.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 13, 2007 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

he signed his contract

I don't see him trying to get out of it for a variety of reasons.

The report doesn't really do much to him. If he used anything, it was minimal and to help recover from an injury.
He's not about to go quietly into the good night when he has nothing to be ashamed of. His record stands. It's not like McGwire who smashed records and was one of the faces of steroid use.
I'm sure the Yankees and fans will stand by him.

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Dec 13, 2007 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Many players have retired

while under contract.

Let me be clear, I'm not at all convinced he's going to retire. I just wouldn't be shocked if he did.

by anaconda on Dec 13, 2007 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Selig should be fired

Baseball is dumb, they should do what the NFL does and not talk about it. Do people actually believe that more of a percentage of MLB players use HGH than NFL players? Have you seen the size and speed of this guys? Come on? I blame ESPN and the white media for this biased bullshit.

by BillyBobisdrunk on Dec 13, 2007 3:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Hal Morris

Hal freaking Morris ... I grew up with the guy. I played ball with the guy. "Hal, I barely knew ya'" Pettitte? Was it perscribed by a doc? If so, I don't care.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Dec 13, 2007 4:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

You grew up with Morris?

He's originally from Munster, IN - just 10 miles from my house. His dad is a doctor and has a private practice in that town as well.

I'm guessing your time spent with him was during his minor league days.

by anaconda on Dec 13, 2007 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

For a very short time with Cincinnati. He's a great guy. I'm totally bummed by this. He never, ever once offered to shoot HGH into my ass.... Damn him.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Dec 13, 2007 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Can someone post the Pettitte info?

I'm too sick to dig around...

by John Amato on Dec 13, 2007 4:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Pussy

HaHa.

by anaconda on Dec 13, 2007 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You can find it on p.175

by anaconda on Dec 13, 2007 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

whoa whoa whoa

Where is Albert Belle? I had money on Albert Belle. I mean come on... that guy's crazy!

by cmart332 on Dec 13, 2007 4:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

This report is

very NYC centric - the main interviewee was based in the Bronx - I don't think we'll ever know the magnitude of how many players throughout the league participated in the drugs.....

I think Andy's is explainable. I was mildly surprised about Roger - I thought the rumors would have been swirling around him like they were Bonds, Giambi, Sheffield - etc.

I can't wait to hear Clemens' excuses or denials!

by JARNJ3 on Dec 13, 2007 4:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Surprised about Clemens?

Really? I thought it was obvious. His legs are like tree trunks.....

by AKJoe on Dec 13, 2007 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I was

giving him the benefit of the doubt with his well publicized and praised work out routine.....

I always thought he looked "steroidy" like Giambi.....

by JARNJ3 on Dec 13, 2007 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah....

Always seemed like a stand up guy....Still is I guess...I don't hold it against any of them.....

by AKJoe on Dec 13, 2007 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

im suprised

Selig didn't coverup Clemens as he did everyone else. Theres hundreds of more names out there , we'll never know

by Soriano NY 12 on Dec 13, 2007 4:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

John Rocker...ha ha ha...

This explains a lot

by mrljdavid on Dec 13, 2007 5:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

That guy had text book roid rage.

by docgonzo on Dec 13, 2007 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Selig was really grandstanding

in that press conference when he should have been relieved that he didn't get roasted as he should have been.

He couldn't have handled this thing worse.

MLBPA is going to eat that report for lunch.

by anaconda on Dec 13, 2007 5:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

This is a witch hunt

The only reason why this all started was because of an IRS agent who hated Bonds and did not want him to break McGuire's single season homerun record.

by BillyBobisdrunk on Dec 13, 2007 5:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

His physique and mellon head

hasn't helped Bonds' cause either.

by anaconda on Dec 13, 2007 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good point

but the "witch hunt" comment is still true.

Nuke the whales. Save Phil Hughes!

by marcbouch9 on Dec 13, 2007 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Do we expect to hear from Hank?

Perhaps he will go completely crazy now.

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Dec 13, 2007 5:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

NFL

How come there is no investigation? NFL players are bigger and faster than MLB players. Healing from injuries is a daily norm for them.

Washington Redskins tackle Jon Jansen said Thursday it would be "very naive and foolish" to think that NFL players aren't using human growth hormone, "maybe 25, 60%" of the league's players use illegal performance-enhancing substances.

Rodney Harrison, Shawn Merimem, etc. Why is the media ignoring the NFL?

by BillyBobisdrunk on Dec 13, 2007 6:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'd Just Like To Put This Out There...

that in my mind, I now associate Roger Clemens as the pitchers version of Barry Bonds, and it blows. I had a lot of respect for Clemens doing what he was doing at 43, 44, and even 45. It's too bad that it's now all tainted. Should have settled for 275 wins, lots of strikeouts, and a few stints on the DL...Might have actually resulted in a HOF bid anyway, but now what?

"Baseball is the only instance where a sacrifice is truly appreciated."

by YanksFanAtSwat on Dec 13, 2007 11:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

well

it's unfortunate that this would sway you so easily and so fast. There is so much wrong with the report.

I fully expect Roger to throw at someone's head over this. Maybe everyone's.

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Dec 14, 2007 8:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You also have to remember

That much of the "evidence" came from two guys who are under Federal prosecution right now, and both of them will receive lighter sentancing because they complied with Mitchell. You can be guranteed that their attorneys told them to name names no matter what. Suppose for a minute that McNamee named Clemens even though Clemens never actually juiced. Once his name is on the report, the damage is already done. What can Clemens do, sue for libel or slander? Those are notoriously difficult cases to prove. Prove that you didn't do steroids Roger. The absence of a failed test isn't enough to win that case in court.

It's basically a cheap shot. Mitchell, McNamee, and Radomski can say whatever they want, and the players they name have absolutely zero recourse.

It will be very interesting to see how everybody responds to this. I don't blame these guys for getting attorneys and refusing comment for the time being.

by kuri3460 on Dec 14, 2007 9:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

right

but the report didn't have to name names. Especially since the sources were so questionable...and how many others are out there who weren't named because their sources are not under investigation?

It's not a full report. It's a very slanted, narrow and biased view from questionable resources. Even if Mitchell found that steroid use was a big problem in baseball (which is true), he did not have to use the names in the report as he did. The effect on baseball careers and HoF status will affect very few people (how many people on that list were anywhere near HoF eligible?) but the ones it will affect will be devastating.

To know that there are most likely lots of others out there who were not named because no one close to them had any reason to sing like a bird is unfortunate, but even more unfortunate is that the people being dragged through the mud by shady characters and being named in a questionable report. Very sad.

The whole 'roid thing is a stain on baseball and needed to be addressed but this report is not the fair and balanced portrayal of drug abuse in baseball that it should be.

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Dec 14, 2007 9:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

One of my biggest problems

with this report is that it's just the tip of the iceberg and it was done half ass.

The Yanks were unlucky because the guys who were caught and spilled their guts for less jail time had NY ties.

I have absolutely no doubt there has been a Radomski or McNamee in almost every clubhouse in baseball. They just haven't been caught.

Also, any report without the names Sosa, McGwire, or Palmeiro in it is a complete sham.

by anaconda on Dec 14, 2007 9:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I could have written a better report

by spending a weekend googling 'steroids MLB'.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Dec 14, 2007 9:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Or

by flipping through Topps sets from 1986 to present comparing the size of the man on the front and his numbers.

No Pudge? No Juan Gone? No Mike Lowell? No Luis Gonzalez? No Brady Anderson? I figured those guys are all slam dunks.

Nuke the whales. Save Phil Hughes!

by marcbouch9 on Dec 14, 2007 10:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It DID have to name names

People were skeptical of this whole thing from the very beginning. For this report to work, to appease Congress, and to cover Bud's ass, it had to name names.

Which do you think is the bigger headline?

"Report concludes that many used steroids"

"Report concludes that Hal Morris, Nook Logan, Rondell White used steroids"

"Report concludes that Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, and others used steroids".

Radomski and McNamee knew three things - 1.) They had to give up names to reduce their sentances 2.) The juicier the names, the better it was for the report, and the more compliant they appeared to be 3.) Libel and slander are very difficult to prove in court. So they read between the lines. Some of the names are true, some of the names are false.

I believe Barry Bonds is guilty because of the mountain of evidence against him from BALCO and the changes in his body. Jay Gibbons and Jose Guillen are guilty because they had HGH shipped to them. But before I believe Clemens is guilty, I'm going to need a lot more than some guy saying he injected him 10 years ago.

by kuri3460 on Dec 14, 2007 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs