Me and Bobby Klapisch

by John Amato on Oct 21, 2007 2:30 AM EDT in News Comment 20 comments

I wrote this seven days before Randy Levine torpedoed Torre: "Bring Joe Torre back and make him a Yankee for Life!"

The Yanks should extend Torre's contract a year, two, whatever and at the presser announce that Don will take over after Joe's time is up and then sign Torre to a Yankee contract for life. You can't have him go to or manage another ball club. This is Torre. He's been the face of the Yanks that have won four out of six championships and been to the playoffs every year since he's led the team in the biggest town in the world.

It would be the smartest move all around. The fans would be grateful that Torre was treated with dignity and (who else could have gotten this team into the playoffs after a 22-29 record with a decimated pitching staff?) Donnie would be at the helm finally after more time as a bench coach.

Bob Klapisch agrees:

Torre knows he can hurt the Yankees by pulling a Yogi, refusing to show up at the ballpark for however long it takes the club to realize its mistake. That means no Old-Timers' Day, no first-pitch ceremonies, no Joe Torre Day, at least not for a while, anyway. The Bombers prattled on and on about Torre's integrity, even on his way out, but they're about to find out how badly they mishandled this coup.
All the Yankees had to do was show Torre a little respect. Cut his pay, if they really had to, but they should've given him a second year's guarantee and another 10-year personal services contract after his retirement, allowing Torre to act as the franchise's greeter, spokesman and guru.

That way, Torre could've been around to help Don Mattingly in his first year on the job. He could've spent a few innings a week in the YES booth. He could've simply hung around the ballpark, sharing his immense good karma.

Instead of doing the right thing and signing Torre "for life" and showing some...class...from here on in most Yankee fans will despise the ownership group "for life." Nice going.

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Dream

I would support it, but

It has very little real chance of happeneing.

Let's hit the gym and get ready for spring.

by Cbeck3 on Oct 21, 2007 10:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's not going to happen

The press and the fans are mightily disgruntled but the lil Steins don't care. The interview in todays NY paper says, we think it was fair. Period. End of story. Boras is saying the Torre mess might make A-rod leave. (to him, I say oh pul-ese)...I can see Posada, Rivera and Pettitte saying that but A-rod? Give me a break.

And the Daily News going through their expenses and who got docked for what? Ridiculous. I do a lot of traveling for business and I get pretty nice accommodations, but my employer (and any one before this one) does not pay for movies and room upgrades. They do pay for food when traveling but not alcohol. I think this story was simply ridiculous. If Joe Torre and Gary Sheffield want room upgrades, they should pay for them. If Arod wants to watch 4 movies in one night, he should pay for them. That's business. The whole "Yankee execs are evil" and "Joe Torre is a saint" dichotomy is getting crazy.

I also am sensing a tide turn among my Yankee fans friends...I quote one: "Okay let's MOVE ON and do what we need to do for this team. We have a bunch of veterans who need re-signing and a bunch of baby bombers who need TLC and not this drama."

I wanted Torre back. I think I've lashed out at Randy Levine who is a bit of a weasel...okay a lot of a weasel...but it's now gone from the ridiculous to the sublime. Chewing this endlessly is not changing the situation.

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Oct 21, 2007 11:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

you're right

This isn't going to change anything, but FA is still a few weeks off, A-Rod hasn't done anything yet about opting out, and we haven't resigned our own free agents. Once one of those things happens, we can get off of this Torre topic. All of this outpour just shows how much people liked Torre. I mean, Torre's press conference was deemed important enough by local stations to show it over their soap operas. He wasn't quite the patriarch of the entire organization (a la Joe Paterno or Bobby Bowden) but Torre became a huge part of Yankee legend and lore. It's going to take a few more weeks until people cool down about this situation.

"It's great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 21, 2007 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Give George his due

It pains me to defend George Steinbrenner, the New York Yankees' abrasive owner.

Especially as a Mets fan.

But the avalanche of negative press regarding his treatment of his manager, Joe Torre, has done what I once thought was impossible: Turned the big blowhard whom Larry David famously ridiculed in "Seinfeld" episodes into a sympathetic figure.

And the media hit a new low this past week when - sheez, how shocking - The New York Post printed a cover photograph that made Steinbrenner look like Charles Foster Kane muttering "Rosebud" under his breath.

This is a man who, if we are to believe other press reports, is suffering from some form of diminished mental capacity. The "Boss Fog" headline is a typical tabloid media labeling of mental disorders that trivializes - and even ridicules - their meaning.

But the lack of sympathy isn't the only reason why the press is failing, once again, to present a fair representation of potential mental disorders. Even if Steinbrenner is suffering from dementia, it doesn't mean he's incapable of making decisions that make sense.

If we are to assume that firing Joe Torre is nothing more than the product of a demented decision-making process, then we probably can assume that anyone suffering from some form of mental disorder is potentially incapable of making good decisions.

The interesting thing about this situation is that firing Joe Torre probably does make sense. We're talking about a team with a payroll that exceeds $200 million, by far the biggest in baseball. But the Yankees haven't won a World Series in seven years, and haven't advance past the first round in three years - despite having the most talented team in the major leagues.

I love Joe Torre - in fact, I wish he was still managing the Mets. I've always told people that he was one of the best managers the Mets ever had. He managed from 1977 to 1981, and despite presiding over one of the worst teams in baseball history - particularly in 1979 - he never lost 100 games.

But managers have a shelf-life. Eventually, their style and their strategies get old. It happened to Casey Stengel, who was fired after the 1960 season. In 1961, the Yankees won 109 games and won the World Series.

The "fog" that hangs over the Yankees has been lifted. It's time for Torre to go. The boss is right, for once.

Coping with Life

by coping with life on Oct 21, 2007 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He didn't have the pitching

to win in postseason anymore. You can talk about 200 million all you want, but if it isn't spent wisely, it doesn't matter. And please don't compare Joe Torre in 2007 to Casey Stengel in 1960. Casey was an old 70 and was not well-liked by the younger players on the team. If Joe were managing the 1960 Yankees, I don't think he would have waited until Game 3 to pitch his ace. And we know that Joe was extremely popular with his players. Horrible move done in a classless way.

by flipster on Oct 21, 2007 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am sorry to disagree

Casey was the best manager in the game. He was smart, resourceful and innovative.

The Yanks had a good season, 97 wins if I remember. And I believe they played less games than current.

The situation was not the same, but it was comparable.

Let's hit the gym and get ready for spring.

by Cbeck3 on Oct 21, 2007 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't born yet

but I know he held back Whitey Ford until Game 3. He also pinch-hit for Clete Boyer in the 2nd inning of Game 1.Holding Ford back meant he could only pitch twice instead of three times (he threw two complete game shutouts). The Ford decision alone probably cost the Yankees the series. The front office felt he was making very questionable moves, and judging by the two I read about, I can certainly understand why. Put that together with his lack of popularity with several key young players, and the situations hardly seem comparable at all.

by flipster on Oct 21, 2007 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I also disagree

but for different reasons. Earl Weaver is the best manager this game has ever seen.

by Willton on Oct 21, 2007 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Earl Weaver is not relevant

He didn't get to the O's until 1968, so if Casey wasn't the best in the game at that time, it is not cause of Weaver.

Let's hit the gym and get ready for spring.

by Cbeck3 on Oct 22, 2007 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not relevant?

How is Weaver not relevant when we're talking about who "the best manager in the game" is? And why does it matter when Earl Weaver got to the O's?

Earl Weaver the best manager to ever manage in baseball (IMHO). He was one of the first to realize that "there is no such thing as a 'winning' or a 'losing' player. It comes down to a player's ability and how he produces." He emphasized what a player can do, not what a player cannot do, and he'd utilize those players accordingly. He also, in a way, taught statheads to think like statheads: focus on what actually wins games and discard that which does not further that cause. Hence, his teams exemplified good pitching, good fielding, and power hitting, while rarely ever utilizing the much ballyhooed yet rarely effective "small ball" strategies.

by Willton on Oct 22, 2007 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um

cbeck was disagreeing with flipster's characterization of Casey at the time of his release.

Your Earl Weaver thing came out of left field. You're talking about all-time; cbeck and flipster are talking about the day in October 1960 when Casey was fired on the pretext of being too old.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Oct 22, 2007 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My bad

I recant my statement.

by Willton on Oct 22, 2007 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The current state of Yankee management

reminds me of the Disney empire after Walt died. Then like now you had a bunch of midgets running around trying to run the show "Walt's way" but without the smarts or business acumen to pull it off. It took years of the franchise tanking before an outsider like Eisner came in and turned things around.

Nothing I've seen so far about the Baby Steins or Levine instills much confidence for the future.

by django on Oct 22, 2007 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You may be right about the baby Steins and Levine,

but let's remember that the Yanks won 20 of their WS championships w/out George. George has been at the helm for about 40% of the time it took to amass 26 championships, and captured less than 1/4 of them.

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Oct 22, 2007 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Apples and oranges

With free agency, the implementation of the wild card, etc. it is hardly as easy as it was for the Yanks of the past.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 22, 2007 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes,

but the point is that all sorts of logic can be mobilized to demonstrate that the new era is going to be better than/as good as is/worse than the old era. The handling of the Torre contract constitutes a stubbed toe, not a hanging offense. Levine's going to be kept around until the baby Steins feel a little more comfortable, then he'll get thrown under the bus in favor of their own man.

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Oct 23, 2007 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It wasn't that simple Ford was hurt

that year. He was only 12-9 and it was the only season in the prime of his career he pitched less than 200 innings.

The Yankees used 11 starting pitchers that year. 8 Yankees had 8 or more starts. The pitching staff was a mess.

Art Ditmar was 15-9
Jim Coates was 13-3
Bob Turley was 9-3
All had better won-loss records than Ford.
Ralph Terry was 10-8

Ford, Coates, Turley and Terry all had ERA's over 3 but under 3.5.

He would have been second guessed no matter what he did (except win).

The series turned on a bad bounce. It was not Casey's fault. The Yankees would have won the series if SS Tony Kubek had made the play, but the ball bouced up and hit Tony in the throat. The Pirates had a big inning, and Kubeck was unable to stay in the game.

The yankees battles back and tied the score on a great baserunning play by Mantle. But Mazerowski hit his famous walk of in game 7 off Ralph Terry.

Many starters were used in relief by both teams. The Yankees outscored the Pirates 54-27 but lost the series 4-3. Go figure.

It broke my 12 year old heart.

Let's hit the gym and get ready for spring.

by Cbeck3 on Oct 21, 2007 9:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It was the World Series

Ford threw two shutouts, which is kind of hard to do if you're that badly injured. It was the only postseason series to get through at that time (no playoffs). I think if he was healthy enough to throw not one, but two complete game shutouts, he could have worked one game more. And if he got tired or weak at some point and suddenly couldn't cut it, they could have lifted him then.

by flipster on Oct 21, 2007 10:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs