Why so much concern about manager experience?

by Willton on Oct 20, 2007 2:41 PM EDT

I don't understand why people here are making a big deal about managing experience. What benefit does experience impart on a manager?

I ask this because every available manager candidate that has experience was fired at one point because he was deemed to be a failure at his job. That does not sound like a good situation to buy into. I realize that a manager is only as good as the players he fields, but guys like Girardi, Brenly, Baker, Vallentine, Garner and Tracy were removed from their respective positions because their philosophy and conduct did not comport with the accepted norms and goals of the organization each one worked for. Do we really want to hire a retread to manage the Yankees? Must it always be that way?

Ron Gardenhire's first gig as a manager was with the Twins in 2002 after being merely a 3rd base coach for 4 years. Look what happened. Mike Scioscia served as a bench coach for the Dodgers for one year before signing on as the Angels manager in 1999. Look what happened. Eric Wedge never even coached, let alone managed, a MLB game in his life before he signed on with the Indians in 2002. Look what happened.

I think some of us here are being way too hard-headed about manager experience with regards to the next candidate. I'd much rather see the Yankees do something bold and creative than bring in retreads to interview for the job.

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mattingly for manager?????

sorry i really cannot understand why everybody's endorsing d-matt for manager... last time i checked great players doesn't make good managers. please explain this to me... somebody plsss....

by jighead55 on Oct 20, 2007 7:07 PM EDT 0 recs

Note

I never said that Mattingly would be a good manager; I'm still on the fence in that regard.

That said, Joe Torre was a very good player just like Mattingly was, and he ended up being a pretty decent manager (an understatement, I know). I don't totally buy into the "good player = bad manager" theory, and Joe Torre is why. If you're going to criticize Mattingly, find some new material.

by Willton on Oct 21, 2007 12:06 AM EDT up 0 recs

My Concern

with Mattingly is his lack of not only ANY managing experience, but coaching in general. He's been on the staff for, what, 6 years? It's not as much the in-game moves, but the handling of the press, which he was not great with when he played but so good it didn't matter, in times of struggle and not hitting the "panic button". I am turning 30 in December and Donnie Baseball was my idol from the ages of 8-15, but I am not convinced he is the answer.

From the candidates we have confirmed interest in, I would prefer Pena if we can keep 3 of the 4 of Pettitte, Posada, Rivera and Arod. If we cannot, and we look to be a younger club, I'd prefer Girardi because I was very impressed with what he did with the Marlins, whose average age was 25.6.

Chien-Ming Wang+Phil Hughes+Ian Kennedy+Joba Chamberlain = the future

by marcbouch9 on Oct 22, 2007 7:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

Again, all this focuses on experience

Why? What is it about the experience of Girardi and Pena that would make them better candidates than Joel Skinner or John Farrell? What benefit does experience impart on a manager?

Girardi has already gained a reputation for being irresponsible in monitoring young pitchers and preferring old stop-gap vets in place of young players with potential. I find that to rebut this thought that Girardi is good with young players, and I doubt any bit of "experience" alleviates this concern.

by Willton on Oct 22, 2007 9:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

Matttingly was good.

So was Torre.
So was Lou Pinnella.

I think the point about experience is a little off.

Why no someone who has at least minor league expeience.

On the other hand the situation in NY with our fans, pree and ownership is different than the rest of baseball. Someone who's been through the NY expeience for a number of years has some relevant experience.

Let's hit the gym and get ready for spring.

by Cbeck3 on Oct 21, 2007 10:04 AM EDT 0 recs

Hey

Scioscia was no slouch behind the plate.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Oct 21, 2007 11:32 AM EDT up 0 recs

Because

This job is not a learning experience. We let our prior manager go because he didn't win a World Series. Learn somewhere else.
Like I said, it's not necessarily managing experience, but coaching experience in general. Joel Skinner has coached or managed, but mainly managed, at some level for over 10 years. Farrell has coached for over 10 years and was a director of player development for 6 years. 3 years as a hitting coach and 1 as a bench coach are not even close to that.

I'd also like to point out that Girardi had 4 players on the 2006 Marlins who were over the age of 30. How he "prefers" old players is beyond me. His abuse of young pitchers seems odd to me, considering that his staff was lights out in 2006 and stunk up the league in 2007.

Chien-Ming Wang+Phil Hughes+Ian Kennedy+Joba Chamberlain = the future

by marcbouch9 on Oct 23, 2007 8:52 AM EDT 0 recs

A big part of that

is because two of their best young guns had TJ and missed most of the season.

by anaconda on Oct 23, 2007 9:35 AM EDT up 0 recs

Exactly

And one of them was directly related to Girardi's abuse. I need not go over the rain delay game again.

Look, it was documented at the time that Girardi wanted to take a team of vets out of spring training. That's not what the Marlins wanted, so GM Larry Beinfest constructed the roster with young players.

Plus, Girardi's experience: One year as bench coach, one year as manager.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Oct 23, 2007 12:10 PM EDT up 0 recs

Good to have you back, PP

I take it you're not the biggest Girardi supporter.

Okay, it's your call. Who would you have manage this team?

I wouldn't mind Bobby V (although he is not going to be considered) but Mattingly is fine too.

I think the whole "experience" factor is way overrated. It won't matter who manages the team if the youth movement continues and they stack the rotation and pen with good arms.

The team's future success will be dictated by their pitching - not the offense or manager.

by anaconda on Oct 23, 2007 12:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

It's really a tough call

I've been saying that I want Pena managing and Bowa as bench coach, but where does that leave Mattingly?

I dunno. I'm coming to grips with Mattingly, I suppose. I'd appreciate it, though, if they went out and got Davey Johnson to be his bench coach.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Oct 23, 2007 1:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

I'd go with Pena

with Mattingly as bench coach, Long as hitting coach, and Mazzone or Eiland as pitching coach. Would Davey Johnson coach 3rd if Bowa bolts?

Mattingly just doesn't seem ready. When he filled in for Torre over the summer he looked terrified during the postgame news conference. I realize there's more to it than that, but you gotta be able to say the right things when you're in a middle of a four game losing streak.

Besides, I'm really going to get angry at myself for getting angry at Donnie Baseball when he does something like bring in Farnsworth in a close game.

Is it possible to get pissed at Mattingly? I guess we'll find out.

by matthaggs on Oct 23, 2007 3:22 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think Mattingly

had a lot of practice talking to the media during losing streaks and adversity in the 80s since he was the face of the organization.

by anaconda on Oct 23, 2007 3:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

That is a very good point

Mattingly is my all-time favorite player and he still has a "can do no wrong" aura for me. That will surely be tested over a 162 game season and I can definitely find myself wanting to make excuses for bringing in Farnsworthless or letting Mo rot in the bullpen in a tie game on the road.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 23, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up 0 recs

Anybody but Girardi for me

I cannot fathom how a guy who couldn't get along with Florida's apathetic owner, absolutely destroyed his pitchers' arms and has no eye for talent would be put at the helm. Mattingly may have no experience at all, but that is still better than demonstrated incompetence.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 23, 2007 3:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

The Arm Troubles

are hard to pin on him, unless there is pitch count numbers to look at. I am not debating it, I am just saying I can't subscribe to it without evidence. And, whether he wanted to or not, Girardi got more out of a group of young players than anyone could have expected. Also, his one year as a manager resulted in a MOY award.

I'm not saying that being creative is a bad move, but if the three guys they are interviewing are the three we have to choose from, I'd prefer Girardi if we're younger and Pena if we're not. I honestly hope we consider more than those three.

Chien-Ming Wang+Phil Hughes+Ian Kennedy+Joba Chamberlain = the future

by marcbouch9 on Oct 23, 2007 9:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

Even so

Even discounting the arm troubles (which would be a horribly misguided decision), Girardi still cannot excuse his inability to judge talent or his inability to get along with an owner who doesn't give a shit. Hiring him would be a horrendous idea.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 24, 2007 7:55 AM EDT up 0 recs

I don't see how

he can't evaluate talent. When does a manager evaluate talent anyway? Doesn't a manager just play the hot hand or what the matchups show? Didn't Girardi leave the Yankees because he thought Jorge should start everyday?

I'm starting to sound like a huge Girardi supporter, but I'm really not. I just don't see how he deserves the labels with only one year under his belt.

Chien-Ming Wang+Phil Hughes+Ian Kennedy+Joba Chamberlain = the future

by marcbouch9 on Oct 24, 2007 7:57 PM EDT up 0 recs

The hat trick

He fully believes that the manager and not the GM should control roster decisions. Strike One. He thought that two of his best players, Hanley and Uggla, should be in the minors. Strike Two. He also ignored the media and by the end of the season wasn't even talking to Beinfest. Strike Three.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 25, 2007 9:12 AM EDT up 0 recs

Wrong on Uggla

Sending him to the minors was not an option. He was a Rule 5 draftee, so he had to stay with the Marlins.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Oct 25, 2007 12:59 PM EDT up 0 recs

My bad

I just know that Hanley wasn't the only one that he horribly misjudged.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 25, 2007 1:17 PM EDT up 0 recs

No

I believe Hermida and Willingham were among those Girardi wanted to see in the minors.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Oct 25, 2007 1:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

Points well taken.

But, I will add that Hermida had an awful year that year and did belong in the minors. If he wanted Hanley the Manley in the minors, then he's not a bright man.

I don't agree with his philosophy on the manager having control of personnel. He's not freaking Bill Belicheck!!

Chien-Ming Wang+Phil Hughes+Ian Kennedy+Joba Chamberlain = the future

by marcbouch9 on Oct 25, 2007 1:59 PM EDT up 0 recs

Understood

and I don't have any personal feelings against Girardi. By all accounts he is one of the nicer guys you will meet. I just think he would be a horrific choice to manage this team.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 25, 2007 2:32 PM EDT up 0 recs