Yankees Rotation 2008 and beyond

by DJ87 on Sep 3, 2006 9:55 PM EDT Comment 40 comments

Okay I realize its only been a couple of games for Karstens and just one game now by Rasner, but these young starting pitchers are looking pretty good. The Yankees also have some talent in the minors with Tyler Clippard and Phillip Hughes at AA. And one young pitcher already pretty dominant in the MLB (Wang). In 2008 their rotation could be literally stocked with young pitching (no more old men like Moose and RJ). 2008 is the last year of Pavano's contract, but I think we all know where he will be pitching or should I say not pitching (the DL). Anyways here is what the Yankees 2008 rotation could/should look like and what their ages will be opening day 2008:

Chien-Ming Wang 28
Phillip Hughes 21
Jeff Karstens 25
Tyler Clippard 23
Darrell Rasner 27

Now none of these young guns will cost the Yankees much with the exception of Wang who will be arbitration eligable and will likely be making 8 million or so. The rest will make league minimum. That mean the entire rotation will be being paid around $10 million. Right now RJ, Moose, Pavano, and Wright are making about $51 Million combined. That my friends is the value of good young pitching. With only $10 million invested in the starting rotation that will leave about $190 to be spent on the bullpen and position players. Damon, Matsui, Jeter, A-Rod, Cano, and Cabrera will all still be under contract. JB Cox will likely be in the bullpen making the league minimum. As long as George doesn't have Cashman trade away the young talent and they all avoid injuries (two big ifs), the Yankees will be stocked in 2008 with cheap young pitching and they should have the best offense and bullpen in baseball with all of the money they will have left over.

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ok first off...

Wang won't be an ace, despite what Guidry said, maybe a solid number 2, but ace, no.

I would swap Clippard and Karstens, make Hughes the ace, put Wang as the number 2. Rasner probably won't even be a Yankee in 2008, and the Yanks will most likely make a run at signing Barry Zito this offseason.

Yankees win! Theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Yankees win! -John Sterling

by goyankees on Sep 3, 2006 10:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wang is the ace...

this year. Look at the numbers. He is a dominant starter. I agree that Hughes has more upside, but in Hughes (likely) rookie season if he and Wang are the top starters I'll take Wang as the ace.

I also realize that the Yanks might throw money down the drain by signing a declining veteran starter to a hugh contract (RJ, Pavano, so many others), but I hope we win the World Series and George is satisfied that way they we won't have to sign Zito. The one thing I might like to see is Mussina resigned after is year for a year or 2 for significantly less money than he makes now. That and the off chance Pavano isn't hurt would give the Yankees plently of insurance on the staff in 07 and 08 in case on of the youngsters doesn't work out.

About Clippard and Karstens and Rasner for that matter, I wasn't sure what order to put them in all of them are probably 4th starters. Clippard has potential to be a 3, but he'll likely be a rookie in 2008 and I put Karstens who would have more experience ahead of him in the rotation.

by DJ87 on Sep 3, 2006 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

too early for that

It is way too early and difficult to predict what the Yankee rotation will look like in 2008, especially since 80% of your proposed rotation has thrown a combined total of 4 starts in the major leagues.

Opening Day in 2008 is just a year and a half away from now.

In fact, 40% of your rotation (Hughes and Clippard) haven't thrown a SINGLE PITCH in the major leagues, yet you are suggesting that they are going to be the #2 and #4 starters in a year and a half.

That's pretty optimistic, but not very realistic.

Secondly, Cashman may want to keep his younger guys, but that doesn't mean that he isn't going to trade for an ace if he feels he can strike when the iron is hot. I don't think Hughes is going anywhere because Cash has made a point to tell everyone that he will not be traded under any circumstances.

However, you can't say the same thing about some of those other minor league prospects. Also, a big free agent pitcher signing is never out of the question for this Yankee ball club, either.

Moose is a free agent after this season and it's not out of the realm of possibilities that Moose could re-sign a one or two-year deal with the Yankees at a significantly lower price than his current deal.

I highly doubt any team will offer him more than a two-year deal, though, unless the third year is an option year. Moose may be getting old, but he can still pitch, as evidenced by the season he is having now.

Let's not forget that both Aaron Small and Shawn Chacon appeared to be cemented in the #4 and #5 slots just 12 months ago and they were tossed out with the garbage months ago.

Much too early to predict the Yankees rotation for 2008 with any kind of accuracy.

"I didn't mean to hit the umpire with the dirt, but I did mean to hit that bastard in the stands." -- Babe Ruth

by anaconda on Sep 4, 2006 1:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Too early

I wasn't trying to predict what the Yankees 2008 rotation will be like. I was simply stating what it COULD be. It would be awesome if all of those young pitchers lived up to their potenital and the Yankees had one of the best young pitching staffs in the MLB. However, I know that it likely won't happen. Mainly b/c the Yankees have so much cash that they will overspend on veterans eventhough they would be just fine by giving the young guns a chance. Anyways I wasn't doing any predicting about what their 2008 rotation will be. I was saying what it could be. If you want my real prediction for the 2008 rotation (still highly unlikely) here it is:

Wang
Zito
Moose
Pavano
Karstens

1st pitcher called up when Pavano gets hurt Phillip Hughes. 2nd pitcher called up when Moose goes down Tyler Clippard.

by DJ87 on Sep 4, 2006 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hughes

He'll definitely start 2008 with the Yanks. Can't say that with the same degree of certainty with Carl Pavano.

And I don't think you'll be seeing Karstens in pinstripes in 2008.

The Sporting Brews
Editorializing the Yanks since 2005.

by PinstripePowerhouse on Sep 4, 2006 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Moose?

I don't think Moose will still be a Yankee in 2008. They may bring him back next year, but I could see him going to the NL to try and pad his resume against the NL's AAA teams for a few years. I do agree about Zito though. I think Cashman will break the bank to sign him.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 4, 2006 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Three years, circa $30 million

I figure that's what they'll sign him to this off-season.

The Sporting Brews
Editorializing the Yanks since 2005.

by PinstripePowerhouse on Sep 4, 2006 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then Zito's agent

would be an idiot. Why would a Cy Young winner sign a lesser deal than Carl Pavano? I agree 3/$30 is about the max the Yanks will offer, if that's what you were trying to say.
I figure Zito goes to the Mets either way.

Have faith in the Yankees my son. Think of the great DiMaggio.

by jscape2000 on Sep 4, 2006 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Scott boras

is zito's agent...he's gunna look for more than A.J. Burnett and Burnett got 5 yrs/55 million

by wilson6590 on Sep 4, 2006 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That was my projection for Moose, not Zito

The Sporting Brews
Editorializing the Yanks since 2005.

by PinstripePowerhouse on Sep 5, 2006 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Misunderstood

My bad. I could see Moose getting that plus some incentive bonuses based on IP.

Have faith in the Yankees my son. Think of the great DiMaggio.

by jscape2000 on Sep 5, 2006 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Yanks Staff

I wouldn't be surprised if the Yanks get Daisuke Matsuzaka instead of Zito.

The kids supposed to be nasty. He will be pricey, but George will make a lot of money off him with all
the international revenue.

PLUS, I'd love to see his GYRO Ball in real life...

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-freeagents071406&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

by Leyritz on Sep 4, 2006 3:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Matsuzaka!

is insane...he would be cheaper and better than zito

by wilson6590 on Sep 4, 2006 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure about either

His posting fee from his Japanese club is going to be huge. Zito is a lefty, innings eating horse. I would prefer him, especially in light of the fact that Matsuzaka's Japanese managers have made Dusty Baker look light on pitchers. They throw him 150+ pitches per start on a regular basis.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 4, 2006 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not so sure about that

I know the kid is supposed to be good, but he would be going from AAA Japanese baseball to the American League.

There is a WORLD of difference.

Zito has proven he can pitch in this league and he has done it for years. We don't know much about Matsuzaka.

"I didn't mean to hit the umpire with the dirt, but I did mean to hit that bastard in the stands." -- Babe Ruth

by anaconda on Sep 4, 2006 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Zito won't come

cheap, and for what he is going to get, he isn't that good. Yes, this year he is doing good. But if you look at the last 3 years before (03-05), he is basically a 500 pitcher with an era in the 4's. He isn't worth breaking the bank for. Don't worry, Pavano will pitch in 08

by ReLaunch on Sep 4, 2006 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Zito is a better option than Matsuzaka

Zito is a proven commodity and has won a Cy Young. Matsuzaka is the Japanese Kerry Wood. His managers have killed him and he is a virtual lock to break down very soon. Sad but true.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 4, 2006 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He won a Cy young in 02. His

numbers for 03-05 have been very average. I'm not promoting the other guy, but I don't think Zito is all that.

by ReLaunch on Sep 4, 2006 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am not promoting Zito

just assuming that the Yanks will target one or the other. I am not a huge Zito fan, but given the track record of Jap starters in the majors, I think he is a much safer offseason target than Matsuzaka. With Zito, you know you are going to get innings, health, and a solid ERA. With the run support that we will give him, he will succeed in pinstripes.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 4, 2006 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I see what you are saying,

he is a safer option. But lets say they work out something with Moose, Yanks will have Wang, Moose, Unit, (Pavano, maybe), and maybe in July they will bring up Hughes. I don't think that urgency is there as there was in the past

by ReLaunch on Sep 4, 2006 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

But out starting staff is still questionable at best and we know two things: 1) the entire roster hates Pavano and 2) George will authorize spending money. To me, that pretty much guarantees that either Matzusaka or Zito will be signed. I just hope it is Zito.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 4, 2006 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you want

to see Pettitte back? I'm not sure, always liked him, but there has been a drop off in his stuff this year

by ReLaunch on Sep 4, 2006 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes and no

Sentimentally, it would be great to have Andy back, so my heart says yes. That being said, my eyes and brain say no. He is finished. Luckily I think with my head and not my heart. Too bad Cashman sometimes falls victim to his heart (Bernie, Cairo)

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 4, 2006 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As much

I am not the biggest Bernie fan, for his role this year, he has done well.

by ReLaunch on Sep 4, 2006 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I must admit

He hasn't been nearly as atrocious as expected, but still he has proven himself to be a dumb, sentimental signing. He is a train wreck on defense and has no power. Those are pretty much the two worst qualities one can have for a DH/reserve outfielder.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Sep 4, 2006 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but for that role,

there aren't too many other players in the league that would put of his numbers so far.

by ReLaunch on Sep 4, 2006 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Japan

isn't like AAA, the quality of players is very similar, it's almost as if you took the mediocre players in the MLB and made there own league you get Japan's leagues...but there are some players that are so amazing in Japan that they'd be superstars in america too, a la Ichiro. Matsuzaka is that good.

Yankees win! Theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Yankees win! -John Sterling

by goyankees on Sep 5, 2006 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I say...

Role the dice and go with Matsuzaka, but then again I'm more of a risk taker.

Zito would be solid, but most likely not great. Matsuzaka sounds like he could be something special.

by Leyritz on Sep 5, 2006 12:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I hear what

you are saying and I think I'm leaning towards going for him instead of Zito. Just remember though Irabu was supposed to be the second coming of Nolan Ryan.

by ReLaunch on Sep 5, 2006 6:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also remember

Irabu and El Duque were given time to relearn the game in the minors. I've always felt that's where we went wrong with Contreras, expecting him to be an MLB ace on day one.

Have faith in the Yankees my son. Think of the great DiMaggio.

by jscape2000 on Sep 5, 2006 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hughes

is speculated to come up to the Show by the end of this year to get some real season experience, as well as a shot at some post season work.

by GrandEd on Sep 5, 2006 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No way

Hughes will not see the bigs this season.

They have treated him with kid gloves all season and he is already passed his innings pitched for the season.

He is way too important to this franchise for him to be playing in meaningless games and risk hurting his arm.

"I didn't mean to hit the umpire with the dirt, but I did mean to hit that bastard in the stands." -- Babe Ruth

by anaconda on Sep 5, 2006 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And he can't

unless someone gets injured get postseason work regardless because he wasn't called up by 8/31

by ReLaunch on Sep 5, 2006 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you guys are ignoring a lot of guys

You guys are only looking at the guys in upper levels. By 2008 we could also be looking at Ian Kennedy, Joba Chamberlain, Christian Garcia, Dellin Betances, Jeff Marquez. If you want to look at pure talent level than our dream rotation would be Hughes, Betances, Wang, Garcia, and Clippard. I expect guys like Karstens and Rasner to be kept around for a couple spot starts and then traded. I like the Yanks farm system a lot as there is a nice mix of high end talent and highly projectable guys. I agree with everyone who says that there will probably be some free agent in there. I think Johan Santana becomes a free agent around there we will probably try to sign him too. Lets hope all these guys can develop well and hit there potential.

Carl Pavano is a bum

by KAnst on Sep 7, 2006 11:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Twins

would deserve to be contracted if they let Santana even Sniff free agency.

Have faith in the Yankees my son. Think of the great DiMaggio.

by jscape2000 on Sep 8, 2006 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the twins...

...already hav him locked up long term

by wilson6590 on Sep 9, 2006 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Free agent after the 2009 season

The Sporting Brews
Editorializing the Yanks since 2005.

by PinstripePowerhouse on Sep 9, 2006 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Next year Rotation Sounds a little crazy

Man I hope Cashman spends the money to get Barry Zito because I have a feeling if he doesnt Boston will. I think we should also bring back Mussina for one more year at least and maybe even try to go after Andy Pettitte again. Hell if Clemen still comes back get him to. Think about this rotation

Zito
Johnson/Clemens
Mussina
Pettitte
Wang

We can let Johnson and Clemens alternate starts so that their age does not catch up with them as bad and when one does not start they can come out of the bullpen if needed.

by Yankee317 on Sep 10, 2006 10:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nice try,

but its not going to happen. As much as we all love Pettitte, he might not have that much left in the tank. Uggh, Clemens, NO. Coming back to the AL will lead to him being hit alot more than he is. I don't care for Zito, he won't go to Boston and pitch with the Green Monster. He is a very overrated pitcher who has been a 500 pitcher since 02. Is he ok, yes, is he going to be worth the 15mil plus a year he gets, hell no!

by ReLaunch on Sep 10, 2006 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs