The Marlins' Loss...

by Jaime R on Dec 2, 2005 5:23 PM EST in New York Yankees News

could be our gain. Seems as if Florida's fire sale could bring Juan Pierre to the Yanks in exchange for little more than Scott Proctor and prospect Sean Henn. I haven't seen Henn pitch, but I'd much rather give him up then say Chien Ming Wang.

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meh

Juan Pierre is an awful defender, not all that much better than Bernie. Also, Torre will bat him leadoff no matter how badly he performs obp-wise. The last thing we need is another Womack at the top of the lineup, and last year shows that Pierre could be on that track.

by nycfan @ Pinstripe Alley on Dec 2, 2005 5:46 PM EST reply actions

Let the Fire Sale Continue!

Juan Pierre is NOT an awful defender. He's an aggressive defender with five-star range, and yes, a pop-gun for an arm. So what. Bernie never had an arm and starred for a decade.

You slot Jeter behind Pierre, and I suspect three things will happen: Jeter will drive in 100 runs and hit .340 (he'll see lots of fastballs); Rodriguez will drive in 150 (Jeter and Pierre will constantly be on base); Matsui will put up his best numbers.

With Pierre, the Yankees would become an offensive monster!

Think of Pierre as Mickey Rivers with a better handle on the English language. Rivers flourished in NY, and so will Pierre.

Message to Cashman: set the hook and reel this fish in!

by 22Ronster on Dec 2, 2005 8:13 PM EST up reply actions

I don't know

what Juan Pierre you're watching. The one I see played center at humongous Pro player stadium and covered a whole lot of ground. Sure his arm is weak, but with Sheffield cannon and Matsui's respectable gun, I can live with that.

He's a guaranteed 40-60 SBs. He's had 200 hits 3 out of the last 5 years. He's never K'd more than 52 times in a season and he wasn't playing second base part time like Womack.

"Half the lies they tell about me aren't true." -Yogi Berra

by Jaime R on Dec 2, 2005 6:56 PM EST reply actions

Proof?

I'm going to need some proof if you're going to convince me he is even average in center, as every single defensive metric shows him as well below average (here is a link to one of those metrics for 2004 and the methadology for it: http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/measuring-range/). Despite having all those hits, he has a career obp of only .350. While i would take that over the godawful number Bubba would put up, i still don't want it at the top of the lineup. The SB's aren't that beneficial when you don't have a great success rate, and 22Ronster is greatly overstating the effect a fast runner on base has on the pitcher. If you can show me a study with actual proof, i might believe it. I'm pretty sure there are multiple studies debunking this idea, and i'll try to find one and post it here. People on this site have a tendency to spout out the conventional wisdom without any proof to back it up. Pierre's reputation as a good defender is based solely on the fact that he is fast, not on any actual proof.

by nycfan @ Pinstripe Alley on Dec 2, 2005 9:03 PM EST reply actions

Hey, Bill Ney ...

Okay Science guy ... I bet you don't think a curveball actually changes its plane either.
Speed kills, my friend. If it didn't, Giambi would be a leadoff hitter. He has the walks, and a Hall of Fame OBP. Ask any pitcher who had to try to hold Rickey Henderson on at first base with the game on the line and Don Mattingly at the plate.

Show you a study with actual proof of what?

This is a hunch, but I bet you graduated with honors ... Pierre has had three of six seasons with 200+ hits. He's a .305 lifetime hitter. His .316 OBP is just a few ticks below Johnny Damon's .353 and the two have the exact fielding average. Pierre also tallied 7 assists last year.

Saying SB's aren't that beneficial when you don't have a great success rate ... huh? Pierre is successful 73% of the time. That's more than good enough.

And finally, method man, the Marlins won a World Series with him as a leadoff guy, playing CF.

by 22Ronster on Dec 2, 2005 11:31 PM EST up reply actions

Not sure if I'd do it

To be honest, at the rate the Yankees are going in their bullpen refashioning, they may very well need Proctor next season. I'll be honest - I'd rather take a chance with Bubba Crosby in center next year and give him a chance. If he doesn't pan out, then we can go after Andruw Jones or Pierre the following year.

by PsiFighter37 on Dec 2, 2005 10:53 PM EST reply actions

The Other Florida Team

is the one we should be raiding. At the winter meetings, I hope we can pick up one or two of those pesky, talented young Devil Rays. Surely we must have somebody we can give them in a trade. How about MELKY? (Or did we already deal him?)

by Yankee Fanne on Dec 3, 2005 10:43 AM EST reply actions

Right

The only way the Marlins give up Pierre is if the Yankee's give the Fish Robinson Cano...

by Jsprt05 @ Pinstripe Alley on Dec 3, 2005 12:23 PM EST reply actions

No to Cano

If they want Cano, then the deal is off. But from what I've read, it's lefty Sean Henn and Scott Proctor. I'd make that trade in a minute.

Pierre is a one year deal. If he does great, the Yankees could resign him, or go after someone like Andruw Jones, Torii Hunter ... If he blows, we let him go after a year and only lose a couple of pitchers.

It's too good a deal to pass up. As for Fanne's post about the D'Rays, I'd love the Yanks to put together a blockbuster for Carl Crawford, but I'm just dreaming. However, Joey Gathright might actually turn out to be better. I think he could be had, but my guess is it would cost us Cano and Wang Chung.

by 22Ronster on Dec 3, 2005 6:22 PM EST up reply actions

Juan Pierre and Ron Villone for Robinson Cano

that is the deal on the table

by Jsprt05 @ Pinstripe Alley on Dec 3, 2005 6:45 PM EST up reply actions

Say hello to Bubba

If this is the deal, it's time to walk away.
Ilike Pierre, and contrary to what Bill Ney the Science Guy said about "proof", I think Pierre would make a tremendous contribution to the team. He would give them a ture leadoff presence with speed, and great range to cover the gaps. From what I've been able to gather, he's also an extremely popular and hard-working guy.

All that said, I would walk away from this deal if it includes Cano--who I believe could be the next Rod Carew with some power.

We will survive nicely with Crosby in center for one season.

by 22Ronster on Dec 4, 2005 11:54 AM EST reply actions

Keep Bubba in center go after freeagents next year

If the Yanks keep Bubba in center, which isn't bad....they will have thier pick of centerfielder studs next off-season. Andruw Jones, imagine him in pinstripes, Torri Hunter, Juan Pierre, and others will be available without having to give anything up except cash which the Yanks have a lot of. Ticket prices went up $20 on the field level, so the fans will deserve the Yanks to spend a bit more next year than this year as far as I see it.

Nobody is getting Cano or Wang so they should stop asking....

Go Yankees.

by matt21oc on Dec 4, 2005 12:21 PM EST reply actions